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#11
07-11-2005, 01:41 PM
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Re: 1st WSOP 2005 hand,how would YOU have played it? X-Post
Wow.
I want to know this kid's name. I think you have to decide at the flop whether you are going to make a stand or be willing to let the hand go if a scary card appears on the turn. If you are going to make a stand, then reraise the flop to T3500. I think most players would just call without the nuts (JJ) early in a big tournament with so many chips behind. But I think you have to be willing to toss the hand if an ugly card comes on the turn. I think 9T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 89 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] are real possibilities. I would have checked behind on the turn and called on the river if he made a value or blocking bet. After villain check raises you, you can only beat a bluff. Without any knowledge of villain, I think you have to let the hand go at this point. I think hero is going to get mugged if a club comes on the turn, so I think villain's PF raise is at worst "unclear", given that it will pick up the pot a good portion of the time. 
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#12
07-11-2005, 02:31 PM
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Re: 1st WSOP 2005 hand,how would YOU have played it? X-Post
Ugh.
What a sick situation. Sorry, Pal. Anyway, this hand is more difficult than most are making it out to be. In my first ME experience, a few things were at play that I found unusual. 1) The standard play with QQ or JJ was open-limp. Most people at my table on day one played them like a small pair. 2)Most people played very timidly, and were deathly afraid of being beaten even with ultra-strong hands. This item and #1 above make JJ a real possibility. 3) You know there have to be a ton of donkeys in the field, but you don't immediately know who you're up against. This kid's plays were reasonable, given the conditions I've mentioned: in most cases, his opponent must have a set/2 pair to call on the flop (and nobody is playing J7/J5/75 at this stage, except maybe me [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]). I think you're going bust with this hand if you pursue a good line on the flop. Meaning, 3000 is the most you can make it and still potentially get away from it if he pushes, but that small reraise invites a push with a semibluffing hand like a straight and flush draw. I think a call is best. On the turn, the 8 is not the worst straight card (a 6 or T would complete a double belly buster), and you still have the two clubs to protect against. I guess the debatable spot is whether to bet the turn, if you're willing to call a check-raise. I'd be inclined to check behind, and take the chance that he hits. Plus, I could fill up when he hits, in which case I'm getting it all in happily. But I certainly can see betting the turn. Once you get raised there, you can only beat 222, unless he's crazy. Problem is, he could be. Tough hand.
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#13
07-11-2005, 02:53 PM
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Re: 1st WSOP 2005 hand,how would YOU have played it? X-Post
Just me, but I'd keep jamming money in the pot on the flop for two reasons:
1) I think I'm ahead <== valuable poker insight 2) Everyone checked to you on the flop and you make a near pot sized bet. That could be any hand in your position - - folded around to MP (now heads up) who raises knowing this. So I can't put him on a hand either. Reraise the flop, if he has JJ, cold decked.
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#14
07-11-2005, 03:19 PM
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Re: 1st WSOP 2005 hand,how would YOU have played it? X-Post
I am not scared of JJ on the flop for two reasons:
(1) JJ would VERY likely raise PF. (2) Your 225 bet into a 350 pot on the flop looks like a typical "Check to me on the button? Well, I'll fire a bet." Given this read of your possible play, he could be check-raising with a wide range of hands, including a bluff or draws. I would assume I'm way ahead on the flop and raise him back big -- 2300 to go. If its set over set, so be it.
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#15
07-11-2005, 04:03 PM
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Re: 1st WSOP 2005 hand,how would YOU have played it? X-Post
Just because you think you're ahead, doesnt make it so.
With T10,000 in the early round of the first day you would be foolish, foolish, to commit your stack without the absolute stone cold nuts. ATF if you choose to reraise you are representing JJ, which is alot different than having it. JJ is a definite possibility for villain to limp with.
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#16
07-11-2005, 04:12 PM
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Re: 1st WSOP 2005 hand,how would YOU have played it? X-Post
If you don't lose alot of money on an empty board with a set, your not playing your sets right. Let's say a board is AAKK and you have KK, would you be worried about your opponent having AA? Please. If they have JJ, they have it. If you play weak tight the whole time worrying about Set over Set your not going to win the WSOP anyway, your going to lose quickly because your going to fold sets when your winning 99% of the time. I know it's deep stacker poker at the time, and you were gayed over like a 5 dollar party multi tourney, but you didn't play it wrong. The guy got lucky, what can you do. Honestly I'd be pressed to put him on the 2 hands that beat you 109 and JJ. Obviously Locutus your a better player than I, I and most other people here would have problems getting away from such hand.
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#17
07-11-2005, 04:26 PM
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Re: 1st WSOP 2005 hand,how would YOU have played it? X-Post
[ QUOTE ]
Just because you think you're ahead, doesnt make it so. With T10,000 in the early round of the first day you would be foolish, foolish, to commit your stack without the absolute stone cold nuts. ATF if you choose to reraise you are representing JJ, which is alot different than having it. JJ is a definite possibility for villain to limp with. [/ QUOTE ] how do you sleep at night with all those monsters? nice read there...
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#18
07-11-2005, 04:28 PM
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Re: 1st WSOP 2005 hand,how would YOU have played it? X-Post
[ QUOTE ]
Edit: Primarily due to the deep stacks, and the importance of survival this early point in the tournament, I am leaning towards a reraise on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] Becasue you want to end the conflict here and now?
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#19
07-11-2005, 04:34 PM
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Re: 1st WSOP 2005 hand,how would YOU have played it? X-Post
Well this site has sunk to a new low if players are accusing me of being better than they are.
I think villain made an unusual play with T9, most hands that c/r are 2 pr++, and my feeling is that 22-- folds to the reraise and only JJ pushes. I don't see J2, so j7 - 3 ways 22 - 3 ways JJ - 3 ways. 1/3 of the time you lose your reraise. ~T3500. 2/3 of the time you pick up the pot ~T1650. About the same. I'm not getting away from this hand either, I just think you could lose less.
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#20
07-11-2005, 04:40 PM
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Re: 1st WSOP 2005 hand,how would YOU have played it? X-Post
[ QUOTE ]
Well this site has sunk to a new low if players are accusing me of being better than they are. I think villain made an unusual play with T9, most hands that c/r are 2 pr++, and my feeling is that 22-- folds to the reraise and only JJ pushes. I don't see J2, so j7 - 3 ways 22 - 3 ways JJ - 3 ways. 1/3 of the time you lose your reraise. ~T3500. 2/3 of the time you pick up the pot ~T1650. About the same. I'm not getting away from this hand either, I just think you could lose less. [/ QUOTE ] stop it, my sides hurt....
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