Check Raise Semibluff to chase out over cards.

Oblivious · #1 06-02-2004, 12:53 AM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Oblivious is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Oblivious raises, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 3-bets, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, Oblivious calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players) 
SB checks, Oblivious checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 bets, CO raises, SB folds, Oblivious 3-bets, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Im putting CO on a single pair. Since MP called two cold, Im worried he has an overpair.

Turn: (12.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players) 
Oblivious bets, MP1 calls, CO folds.

If MP had an overpair, maybe the ace worries him. A check here might be good, since i have outs to win, but if i check i worry that i lose any chance to pick up the pot on the end with a bluff.

River: (14.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players) 
Oblivious bets, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 16.50 BB
Main Pot: 16.50 BB, between Oblivious and MP1. > Pot won by MP1 (16.50 BB).

Results in white below: 
Oblivious shows Qs Ks (high card, ace).
MP1 shows 8c 8s (one pair, eights).
Outcome: MP1 wins 16.50 BB. 

I did my best, but the opponent didnt go away, I suspect because the pot was so big. Besides folding on the flop, could I have done anything better?

DocHollyday · #2 06-02-2004, 07:08 AM

Hi Oblivious,

Flop: Why threebetting? You have overcards only and no apparent draws? MP1 threebetting preflop indicates a pair. Cutoff raising on the flop means that he probably has a piece or at least overcards (which are probably better than yours), or even worse a draw. With your threebetting you will only give him better odds to chase. However I dont have to tell you this, because you figured out yourself:

[ QUOTE ]
Im putting CO on a single pair. Since MP called two cold, Im worried he has an overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

So why not simply fold?

Turn: You have at least a nice draw now, so I think betting is cool here.

River: A blank, the only chance to win here is to bet, but look at the pot size and the type of limit you play. In these limits people are likely to keep you honest. I would keep the bluffing at a very limited size and more going for betting the hell out, whenever you have something, but anyways, that's not the questions you proposed!

Good luck fellow!

Spyder · #3 06-02-2004, 11:56 AM

I have to agree....I'd have folded to two bets on the flop.

You had a back-door flush, back-door straight and two overcards which were probably not good. you had 6 outs (thinking generously and giving you the Kings) for 7 to 1 odds, the pot was giving 4 to 1 odds at 2 bets to you.

Additionally, you weren't going to fold anyone because those folks had already re-raised or cold-called 3 bets, pre-flop. I think you have to let this go.

Spyder

BreakEvenPlayer · #4 06-02-2004, 03:30 PM

Look at the title of your post... and then look at the website and limit you are playing... and then realize that a play like this will never work. Don't get fancy with the fish or they will make world class calls on you all night long.

Oblivious · #5 06-03-2004, 01:27 AM

Thanks for the replies guys. I accept that folding the flop is the best move. And from what I read from doc holiday, since I didnt fold, my turn and river bets were okay. I three bet to chase out MP's overcards. If he calls, he either has an overpair or is stubborn with his overcards. This might be a play I could make on MP if hes tight and i know him to raise pf and bet out unimproved unpaired overcards. I didnt have a read on him yet, so I definitly should have waited. Thanks for the help.