30/60: a turn for the worse

[Nate tha' Great]

30/60 Party. Game is pretty tight but has enough soft spots to make it worthwhile.

I'm on the BB with T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. A player open-raises in LP (two off the Button). So far as I know, this player is solid; he hasn't done anything funny during the couple of orbits he's been at the table. But the game is playing tight enough that people are taking stabs at the blinds here and there.

It's folded around to me and I 3-bet. I used to call more often in these spots with a middie pocket pair, but now I've come to believe that the postflop plays out better with a 3-bet ... anyway that's what I do and he just calls.

Flop is 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

I bet and he calls.

There are 4 BB in the pot plus the small blind's change.

Turn is the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

What's my play?

[DocHollyday]

Nate,

I just tell you how I'd played your cards, I have no idea if that is cool, but as reference I play 30/60live often, not that it makes me more accurate though:

Preflop: Why 3betting? No one else is in the pot and you don't have position. Just call and take a look at the flop. If it comes like that you can put way more pressure on him, by check-raising the flop etc.

However, you threebet the preflop and now there's a turned ace with three diamonds. Your turn, and I say, fire another barrel and hope he has something like KQs (not diamonds). I am sure if he has no diamond he's likely to drop a couple of hands, like JJ,QQ,KQ. Even if he has AK and the K is no diamond he may drop the hand. I don't think he has a flush already, otherwise he mostly would have raised you on the flop for a freecard.

However, you never know, but you definitly should not wimp out yet. If you get raised you should fold.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
Nate,

I just tell you how I'd played your cards, I have no idea if that is cool, but as reference I play 30/60live often, not that it makes me more accurate though:

Preflop: Why 3betting? No one else is in the pot and you don't have position. Just call and take a look at the flop. If it comes like that you can put way more pressure on him, by check-raising the flop etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason why I like to 3-bet before the flop is so that I don't make an incorrect fold. For example, suppose that he opened with AJ and the flop comes KQx, or he opened with KQ and the flop comes AJx, or he opened with 88 and you get either of those boards. It's very difficult for me to call a bet on a board like that, even though I'm ahead. Coversely, I may sometimes cause him to make an incorrect fold if the board comes right. I also get some information about the strength of his hand based on whether he caps or not.

[ QUOTE ]
However, you threebet the preflop and now there's a turned ace with three diamonds. Your turn, and I say, fire another barrel and hope he has something like KQs (not diamonds). I am sure if he has no diamond he's likely to drop a couple of hands, like JJ,QQ,KQ. Even if he has AK and the K is no diamond he may drop the hand. I don't think he has a flush already, otherwise he mostly would have raised you on the flop for a freecard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I think betting out and folding to a raise is exactly the right play. The pot is too big to check-fold and too small to worry about having to call down a semi-bluff raise with a singleton diamond.

Now, I didn't play it that way in the actual hand, but that's because I'm an idiot.

[CrackerZack]

Bet and fold to a raise.

With the line you took, that card should win you the pot. If you had called and check-raised the flop, that card may have lost you the pot. interesting.

[DocHollyday]

[ QUOTE ]
The reason why I like to 3-bet before the flop is so that I don't make an incorrect fold. For example, suppose that he opened with AJ and the flop comes KQx, or he opened with KQ and the flop comes AJx, or he opened with 88 and you get either of those boards. It's very difficult for me to call a bet on a board like that, even though I'm ahead. Coversely, I may sometimes cause him to make an incorrect fold if the board comes right. I also get some information about the strength of his hand based on whether he caps or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good thinking. I didn't consider that. So I guess I also learned something! Thanx [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

PS: Keep cool, it's easier to give the correct (or incorrect) advise after reading a post and making his mind up about it. But in this online clicking war it is sometimes hard to keep straight. I for example think I play much worse online, than live!

[sweetzer]

Could you go a little further on the "incorrect fold" idea. Do you mean that 3 betting preflop gives you the odds to call anything on the flop? My idea of 3 betting here would be to establish control and then lead bet the flop irregardless of its content.

[cwl]

whats your plan on the river if your opponent calls your turn bet?

if the river is:
1) a blank
2) non diamond broadway
3) a diamond

how would you play differently if you had the T of diamonds?

[Steve Giufre]

I bet and fold to a raise. If I had the 10 of dimonds, I would check call.

[SinCityGuy]

I like the 3-bet before the flop. It defines the strength of your hand and allows you to take control. If an overcard flops, you're in much better shape to win the pot than if you just called the preflop raise.

On the turn, I would lead out. If you get raised, you can safely fold your hand.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Could you go a little further on the "incorrect fold" idea. Do you mean that 3 betting preflop gives you the odds to call anything on the flop? My idea of 3 betting here would be to establish control and then lead bet the flop irregardless of its content.

[/ QUOTE ]

what about 3betting to put more money in the pot as well as establish control and make later street play easier.

secondly, irregardless is my favorite least favorite word in the english language...kinda like inflammable. "inflammable means flammable?? what a country [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]" (dr. nick)

-Barron