Flop set Q's vs 3 flush

98romaine · #1 05-10-2005, 07:54 AM

Looking for some feedback on playing the turn in the hand below. Party $1-2 No Limit. Don't usually limp with QQ here but decided to try something different when I saw UTG limp in. UTG was on 3rd buy in with in 30 minutes so I thought there was a good chance to trap with this hand and get his stack.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) converter

Button ($102.05)
SB ($111)
BB ($381.7)
UTG ($217.95)
UTG+1 ($187)
MP1 ($676.1)
Hero ($430.4)
MP3 ($199.55)
CO ($42.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls $2, 1 fold, MP1 calls $2, Hero calls $2, 3 folds, BB checks.

Flop: ($9) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB bets $4, UTG calls $4, MP1 folds, Hero calls $4.

With BB leading here, I thought there was a chance he had flopped a small flush. I decided to call the small bet to keep the pot small and get to the turn and river cheaply to try to hit the FH.
Turn: ($21) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $15,

Need some thoughts here. Do you call the initial $15 with a possible re-raise from the BB? 10 outs to the nut FH and I'm pretty sure my implied odds are huge as one of the presumed made flushed will call my all in.
Thoughts on this line?

PinkSteel · #2 05-10-2005, 08:24 AM

I would have raised the flop to $15-20, to see where I stand and also to price out single-high-spade draws. Then I'd probably call down, but I don't know how I'd play an all-in by either opponent.

But I'm a donk and I'm not sure this is any better than your line. Like you said, if you hit the boat draw you stand a good chance of getting paid big. Whereas if I raise the flop, opponents might be able to put me on a set/two pair, and even a baby flush may fold any substantial river bet. OTOH, they might just let me have the pot right there.

Once the turn [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] hits, I think calling down to hit the boat looks good, even at the risk of a raise from BB; I think you're getting the odds. But I'm just not sure I wouldn't want to try to take pot right on the flop with a raise.

Glad you asked for thoughts, and not actual conclusions... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

-Skeme- · #3 05-10-2005, 08:28 AM

Preflop limp sucks. It's one thing to want to trap him, but don't do it in EP. Both of your limps will entice other limps and totally bring down your chance of winning by SD. If he's going to give you his stack then he'll probably pay $8 more. Just raise.

Flop call is icky as hell. Raise, damnit, RAISE.

boondockst · #4 05-10-2005, 08:29 AM

i hate these hands...Especially on the flop, it's nearly impossible to get away from...I don't envy your decision.

swolfe · #5 05-10-2005, 09:51 AM

this is a tough hand because you didn't raise preflop

as played, i'd raise the flop and see what shakes out. fold to a reraise or turn bet...check behind the turn if checked to.

98romaine · #6 05-10-2005, 10:26 AM

Skeme, you're right pre flop sucked. But I was lucky playing it the way I did. If I had bumped preflop, I'm pretty sure UTG would have called, based on his play for the last hour. He would have flopped the 2nd nut flush as he had Ks-9s. I'm sure he would have check raised me big on the flop, and I would have been put to a tough decision. Probably an easy fold for some, but b/c of table dynamics from previous hands , I would have been tempted to go to the felt on this one, as I felt UTG may have been tilting based on his previous play the last hour. Here is the entire hand as it played out if you're interested. UTG took the pot with K high flush.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) converter

Button ($102.05)
SB ($111)
BB ($381.7)
UTG ($217.95)
UTG+1 ($187)
MP1 ($676.1)
Hero ($430.4)
MP3 ($199.55)
CO ($42.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls $2, 1 fold, MP1 calls $2, Hero calls $2, 3 folds, BB checks.

Flop: ($9) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB bets $4, UTG calls $4, MP1 folds, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($21) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $15, Hero calls $15, BB raises to $30, UTG calls $15, Hero calls $15.

River: ($111) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets $35, UTG calls $35, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $181