4 handed river decision? (online 50/100)

DonCaspero · #1 11-16-2005, 01:28 PM

Please comment all streets - mainly river

Limper is loose passive. Raiser is lag, I have yet to decide how good a hand reader he is postflop, but definately seems to know the game. Both blinds are tags - SB a bit on the passive side maybe. I am tag, and haven't done anything crazy yet.

50/100 (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, 2 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (10.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises or calls??

UMTerp · #2 11-16-2005, 01:43 PM

I'd raise the river, though it's close. I'm all for going for overcalls when the situation calls for it, but I'm having a tough time putting either of the earlier opponents on anything but busted draws. You might get a call out of QT or the like even if you did raise. MP1 with likely call your raise with TPTK or better if he's that laggy. Given that fact, you'd need both EP callers to come along to show a profit by calling. At least one of them is likely to have missed and fold even if you call behind. Would either of them be the type to call behind with JT/T9 if you smoothcalled?

I'd raise the flop too, FWIW.

Lmn55d · #3 11-16-2005, 01:51 PM

there's also the possibility of PFR 3betting with KQ, TT, QQ, or KK (18 total combos) and you picking up two more bets from him alone. Add to that the chance of someone calling 2 cold and I think it's a raise.

Paluka · #4 11-16-2005, 02:47 PM

I like preflop, flop and turn. I would raise the river.

Jeffage · #5 11-16-2005, 02:51 PM

1) You have a very easy preflop reraise.

2) You have an easy flop raise

3) You can raise the turn as well

I'd raise the river b/c you're not guaranteed overcalls anyway. But I think that's secondary to the fact that I believe your play on this hand is botched.

Jeff

Jeffage · #6 11-16-2005, 02:52 PM

Can you explain why you wouldn't reraise preflop, raise the flop or raise the turn in this hand? Curious about why you'd play it so passively.

Jeff

DonCaspero · #7 11-16-2005, 03:18 PM

Preflop I'm playing at least a 3-way pot. Limper is not folding, so I just call to let in hands from the blinds like Ax and [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]s that I don't mind. Also depending on the flop texture, it gives me the option to make it two bets to everyone, assuming the lag bets it and I get a piece of it.

Flop can be raised, but I have the nut flush draw, and I want to keep people in to pay me off. It might clear some outs, but not many I think.

I don't raise the turn because I still want to keep people in, and the K may result in two folds and a 3-bet. But the decision was already made on the flop.

MNpoker · #8 11-16-2005, 03:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1) You have a very easy preflop reraise.

2) You have an easy flop raise

3) You can raise the turn as well

I'd raise the river b/c you're not guaranteed overcalls anyway. But I think that's secondary to the fact that I believe your play on this hand is botched.

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeffage · #9 11-16-2005, 03:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop I'm playing at least a 3-way pot. Limper is not folding, so I just call to let in hands from the blinds like Ax and s that I don't mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is 4-handed and you're likely to have the best hand. In fact, it's a hand that plays well headsup or multiway. And the donks in the blinds may call two cold with a weaker hand anyway given the nature of these games shorthanded. Also reraising preflop gives you more options postflop and the ability to represent different hands.

[ QUOTE ]
Flop can be raised, but I have the nut flush draw, and I want to keep people in to pay me off. It might clear some outs, but not many I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

The preflop raiser may be betting something you beat or can get to lay down later. Your raise may force someone to fold a pair rather than calling two cold. Plus, they may call anyway.

The turn, I agree, is riskier. But a raise may also win you the hand if the preflop raiser doesn't have what you expect him to. And, in the likely event that this doesn't work, you still have outs.

I just prefer to be aggro here, but maybe that is a fault of mine. In these types of hands, your opponents expect you to be aggro anyway so I'd like to splash when A) I have a strong hand/draw and B) I might somehow win without hitting my hand by playing aggressively but have plenty of outs if that doesn't work out.

Jeff

UMTerp · #10 11-16-2005, 03:28 PM

Why is the preflop raise so clear-cut? Does the presence of the initial limper make you more or less likely to 3-bet? Why? I'm pretty sure I just found a preflop leak...

EDIT - I see you kind of answered this in your above post, but a response to the part about how the limper affects preflop would be appreciated.