Internet Poker? Is it Legit?

[Felex]

Just started playing O/8 poker on the 'net and I am wondering how legitimate are these websites? I've been playing w/play money and it seems like I am being dealt way too many suited connectors, AXs, and high pairs. I have had quads in 3 straight sessions. This seems most unusual compared to my experience playing the same game every week for the past 10 years.

I've been playing in Paradise. Are some poker sites more safe than others?

[Inthacup]

This topic has been discussed at length. The common opinion is that no, the card distributions are not crooked. The site has so much to lose by cheating while gaining virtually nothing in return.

You're most likely just experiencing a good run of cards. There are hand databases covering hundreds of thousands of hands and they show that the card distributions are legit.


That being said, I only play at about 5 sites. I keep my money only in a site that I trust. Some smaller poker sites have closed down before and that bothers me.

I feel safe keeping my money at Paradise, Party, UB, Stars or TruePoker. Any others give me hesitation to varying degrees.



Cup

[Terry]

This question has been beaten to death here over the past few years. The key seems to be the words “seems like” or “feels like.”

When someone posts something like “In xx,xxx hands I was dealt X flushes, Y straights, Z quads, those numbers have so far always been right in line with expectation.

I will add, though, that Omaha 8 was the game in which I always had my highest win rate in live play but I have not been able to win at it online. I have, however, been playing online Hold ‘em for a living for over three years. Make of that what you will.

[mosch]

Common consensus is that yes, it's legit.

I'm travelling, and thus don't have my pokertracker database on me, but every time I've checked any probability against the database (and I've checked some obscure ones, to satisfy myself), the sites have turned up clean. (sites I have histories for: paradise, party/skins, stars)

I think the biggest proof of the credibility of online poker is that I (and many others) have found that our long-term winningness/losingness is directly correlated with our skill level.

(Odds of getting at least one suited connector in a 4 card omaha hand: about 23%)

[Webster]

It's totally bogus and we're all here to take YOUR money [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Been doing it for 3 years and the random card software is very very good. You will THINK it's weird at times but only because you see SO MANY hands.

Stay with the big rooms and payouts are fast!

Also - forget EVERYTHING you might have learned with play money. The games are tighter.

[Hung]

Hey inthacup.
We should make a template or FAQ. So when people ask these questions we can copy paste them.
It's easier. And the person will get a complete answer.

[JWise]

Before you read this Id like to say I am in the 99% club when it comes to whether these sites are fair or not. Thats 99% sure they are fair.

You guys keep saying look at all the 2+2ers who are winners and have been winning for 2-3 years, therefore the sites must be fair. To me thats just as dumb as lisa’s too many flush comments. If a site gave a loser an edge it wouldnt make that loser a winner, all it would do is slow down the losers losses, so in the end the winner will get the same amount of money out of this player less all that extra rake generated.

Now lets say for example party uses a “rigged” shuffle and paradise doesnt, you would think since your not getting cheated at paradise it would be easier to beat, but since the fish have no edge they are busting out really fast and theyre most likely not going to make a second deposit just to bust out in a few days, but at party they last so long theyre willing to make multiple deposits, therefore there is more money to be won at party. This is the same reasoning as limit vs NL. A good NL game is way more profitable than a good Limit game, but that NL game will dry up making the limit game more profitable.

If the deal was fixed it would be done so it would be next to impossible to prove with just hand histories and pokertracker.




I would like to test whether the correct number of splits are being dealt, it should be quite simple to do. A split is the perfect hand for the house, max rake and noone loses. So if there are any other pros out there as curiuos as me PM or post your stats, site/#of splits/total hands/average # of players seated/game the majority of your hands are
example:
Party/1893/95370/8.72/100 NL
Para/171/8976/8.66/200 NL
Will probably need more UB and paradise players to share there stats then party players. Ill post the results if enough people read this far down the post and are willing to share these stats.

[fluff]

"you would think since your not getting cheated at paradise it would be easier to beat, but since the fish have no edge they are busting out really fast and theyre most likely not going to make a second deposit just to bust out in a few days"

That's just a silly statement. There are literally millions of people gambling everyday and losing money and busting out, and that doesn't seem to prevent them from coming back. Think of all the casinos in the world, think of people who play slots, keno, state lotteries. Horrible games with horrible house edge, yet the fish don't seem to care. If all (or even a significant percentage of) the people who bust out stop going to casinos, they would be nothing but scorpions in Las Vegas now.

Also rigging the decks is the dumbest way for them to make more money.

First of all, it would be easily detectable by anyone who keeps track. Your statment that it would be done in a way impossible to detect is rediculous: most if not all these accusations are made by people who say that it "seems" or "feels like" the decks are stacked. So they are able to detect this anomaly while someone with a statistically significant sample can not?

Second of all, they can just raise the rake. Party just did, and there are just as many if not more people playing there. Why cheat, when you can be upfront and just take the money? Fish don't care.

Until someone posts a statistically significant sample (probably somewhere around 30-50 thousand hands), and shows a statistically significant deviation from what is expected, I dismiss these threads.

[JWise]

[ QUOTE ]
That's just a silly statement. There are literally millions of people gambling everyday and losing money and busting out, and that doesn't seem to prevent them from coming back. Think of all the casinos in the world, think of people who play slots, keno, state lotteries. Horrible games with horrible house edge, yet the fish don't seem to care. If all (or even a significant percentage of) the people who bust out stop going to casinos, they would be nothing but scorpions in Las Vegas now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im not even going to comment on this. Ill try to stick to poker, Do you seriously believe if a fish busts out of paradise theyre going to go back? Especially if they bust out in less than a week? No, theyre most likely going to move to a different site where they can get another deposit bonus or possibly quit online poker all together.

[ QUOTE ]
Also rigging the decks is the dumbest way for them to make more money.

[/ QUOTE ]

What if rigging the deck is what got them to where they are today?

[ QUOTE ]
First of all, it would be easily detectable by anyone who keeps track. Your statment that it would be done in a way impossible to detect is rediculous: most if not all these accusations are made by people who say that it "seems" or "feels like" the decks are stacked. So they are able to detect this anomaly while someone with a statistically significant sample can not?

Second of all, they can just raise the rake. Party just did, and there are just as many if not more people playing there. Why cheat, when you can be upfront and just take the money? Fish don't care.

Until someone posts a statistically significant sample (probably somewhere around 30-50 thousand hands), and shows a statistically significant deviation from what is expected, I dismiss these threads.


[/ QUOTE ]

What is expected? Ok Ill give you a simple calculation and you tell me what is expected:
If you play 1000 hands how many times should you lose top pair or better(made at any point in the hand) when you have held the lead atleast once after the flop? Asumming a loose full game and you are a tight aggressive player.

[pretender2k]

I really don't care if it is rigged for the bad players or not. Just have to start calling myself a bad player because I just keep taking money off the sites I play.