How many hands do you need on a person?

[tomdemaine]

Just startd using PT how many hands do I need on someone before I can start making assumptions about them. Obviously not solely on it but adapting my play based on these "reads"??

For example I now have 176 hands on someone and their VPIP is 4.5 ie 8/176 is that enough to completly avoid this person?
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[TemetNosce]

[ QUOTE ]
For example I now have 176 hands on someone and their VPIP is 4.5 ie 8/176 is that enough to completly avoid this person?

[/ QUOTE ]

If their VPIP is that low, I wouldn't worry about avoiding them. He will be avoiding you (and everyone else).

[thesharpie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For example I now have 176 hands on someone and their VPIP is 4.5 ie 8/176 is that enough to completly avoid this person?

[/ QUOTE ]

If their VPIP is that low, I would sit to his right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed.

[tomdemaine]

what about some with 76 vpip after 78 hands? Could that just be an averagely loose player with fantastic variance??

[thesharpie]

It could be, but I think it's highly likely he's real loose. 50+ is real loose, but don't take my word for it I haven't done any math or anything just guessing.

[krubban]

In my experience you have a fairly good number on their vpip after only 30 hands and often a good pointer after only 20 hands. A guy with 79 vpip after 78 hands is very loose and unless he changes style it probably won't change very much. After about 100 hands i find it's mostly decimals that changes in their vpip.

[FlyWf]

20 is definitely not enough. 1 hand is 5 percent at 20 hands, which means you can go from rockish tight to loose with 4 hands.

[joop]

Different stats take longer to converge. VPIP and PFR are two which converge very quickly and you can make use of these stats after only 30 hands, or so. Other stats like postflop aggression, particularly by street, and WTSD take much longer to converge and you will need significantly more hands to have any accuracy with these stats, perhaps hundreds.

[Maddenboy]

I think it also depends, in part, on the number of sessions.

So far I've had PT for a month. There were 2 guys on whom i had 3-4 hundred hands who i would go out of my way to find, and recycle myself on the list until i could get on their lefts.

Super LAGs, dumping hundreds everytime they played, with vpips around 50-60.

Then, they changed. both of them. I noticed 2 things:

First, one guy was still borderline maniac at night, but fairly reasonable (though still loose-ish) in the day. Conclusion? maybe he drinks or is sleepy at night, or maybe by the nighttime he's stuck and presses to get it back.

Second, maybe its more than one player on the same account.

So, I'd say with a really high vpip after only a few hands, be inclined to go with that "read," but watch him for a couple orbits before deciding that, right now, he's playing in accord with his stats.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
their VPIP is 4.5 ie 8/176 is that enough to completly avoid this person

[/ QUOTE ]


I hope you're kidding.
Why on earth would you want to avoid this player?