Pwned by Freddie Deeb, WPT Bellagio ME

Hand 1: I check behind maybe zero times...you made a big raise pre...so u arent giving your hand away by making a big bet on the flop and you are certainly protecting it against any of a million draws. Given that you did check behind...you habe now opted to play the hand like a pussy (not that playing that way is bad per se, but u have laid this path for urself i think)..so the semidisguting 5 hts turns...and i happen to think freddys bet is a little nasty here...to me it seems that if he were bluffing he could get you off of the AK you are representing with a bet far less than 3k, but he made it 3k anyway. So I respect this bet quite alot. But lets fins out anyway by making it ..umm...10k total?....you could very well take this pot down now, or most definitely get a river check if he flat calls and does NOT have an already made hand. (yI would check behind such a river chack)....if he reshoves allin very nh sir and u fold. Given that you DID call, i am calling that last 4k..nice odds that he may have kq or ak or something.


Hand 2:you play 2-3 hearts and u turn a flush...i dont know how many chips you have left but all or most of them are going in the middle now. if he has a better flush u lose.


sheets

[Roman]

What real hand is giving a free card here on the flop and then raising the turn? That line makes no sense to me.

Do you call a c/r when u bet out like that sheets?

[renodoc]

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I'm sure you're right, but what makes deepstack different enough that you wouldn't want to at least bet that flop?


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Know and understand this term: POT CONTROL.

He has a very marginal hand here, the bigger the pot is, the greater the chance that he has the worst hand. Giving away a free card here isn't that big a deal.

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I really want to understand the thinking here!

I think this QJ9 suited flop sucks eggs. I hate it. I think the chances of being ahead here are 50-50 at best. Please explain to me why the hero shouldn't try to take the pot down now, on the flop. Or is it your suggestion that the hand is lost on this flop (unless hero improves)?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

i only read through the first page or so in replies and i didn't like what i was reading.

hand 1 the flop check is fine. when you get checkrasied on this flop your life is going to be miserable. there really isn't anything wrong with keeping the pot small on this flop. you guys have 300bb stacks here.

hand 2 is closer than you guys are making it to be but i think i like shoving it in there the best.

[Bill Kolter]

Hand 1: I would never--EVER--check that flop holding an overpair, but then again, I would never find myself facing Freddie Deeb, either, so I'm obviously my giving you advice is a bit surreal. You have no additional information at this point as to what you are facing. If I were Freddy, I would definitely represent the flush on the turn after your check. He's 2-1 to have a heart in his hand and you're getting paid better 2.6-1. Call, unless your read tells you otherwise.

Hand #2. If you weren't calling the pre-flop raise in the hopes of catching a flush, why were you calling? This is what happens when you play that garbage. You have a flush, true, but it's a crappy one. At this point, I wouldn't give him a chance to catch a heart on the river if he has one. Push or fold, depending on your read.

[adanthar]

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I really want to understand the thinking here!

I think this QJ9 suited flop sucks eggs. I hate it. I think the chances of being ahead here are 50-50 at best. Please explain to me why the hero shouldn't try to take the pot down now, on the flop.

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In a Party tournament, with shallower stacks and terrible play, you would simply bet and get it all in vs. AQ.

Live with...wait, 300 BB? I said 75 a post or two ago for some reason, but this makes it *much* worse...anyway, with 300 BB, when you get that many chips in the middle, Freddie Deeb will not have AQ. Ever.

When you reraise and this flop hits, Deeb knows you have one of a few hands: TPTK (unlikely but doesn't matter), an overpair, a set, or AK/air if you bluffed. The bluffs all end on a QJ9 flop, so when you bet, he knows you have at least AQ. Therefore, AQ won't call you. JT/T9 might, but you're tied with them. About the only hand he might continue with that you are ahead of is KQs, and only if he thinks he can stack you when he hits (note that he will play KhQh exactly like AhKh, so even a ten can be a dangerous card for you).

So basically, by betting, you're not maintaining control of the hand, you're giving it to Deeb (who will continue with most of what he had PF), because when he CR's, the pot will be so big by the river (without narrowing his range at all) that you'll often have to put in 300 BB with one pair. Ask anyone in MHNL how often that is a good idea.

Brutal flop w/ KK, I like the check behind on the flop and the call on the turn. I'd probably fold the river there. Hand two, I think there is a good chance that he is doing one of those feeler bets to see where you stand in the hand by leading into you after you raise. Since a fourth heart kills your action and potentially your hand I'd push here.

Adanthar, I'm pretty convinced and I appreciate you taking the time to spell it out for me.

In hand #1, by checking the flop, you immediately give him the green light to steal the pot away from you. If you want him to think you're weak with AK, do it on a 2-8-Qr board, not a 9-J-Q board. You need to define your hand with a pot sized bet here. With half the deck killing you on the turn, you're giving the hand away here. Betting pot on the flop gives you info into his possible holdings, but check-calling a pot-sized bet on the turn gives you nothing, and costs you the same. Hand 2, I don't mind the limp here, gives you plenty of chances to manipulate the pot with position, and also gives you the chance to conceal a monster. Turning a flush is about the best you can expect, I mean, that is why you limped in with 2-3 isn't it?? No brainer raise here probably to 15,000. He could have a big heart, but then you want him in. A big flush is unlikely, he would need to get paid off and would go for the CR.

Then what's the point of calling the bet on the turn. Would he not have lost just as much had he bet the flop and was check-raised and folded? Freddie Deeb is precisely the type of player that will call in this situation with anything in order to set up a bluff on a later street as he loves to do. I think it's important to find do something to get an idea of what he's holding other than making crying calls on the turn and possibly river.