Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > Limit Texas Hold'em > Mid- and High-Stakes Hold'em

View Poll Results: Seed 1 vs Seed 16
16) Red Hot Chili Peppers - Under the Bridge 92 57.50%
1) Pearl Jam - Jeremy 68 42.50%
Voters: 160. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-11-2005, 04:58 AM
Cactus Cactus Cactus Cactus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 32
Default The new trend at my casino

I mostly play on the internet however when I do play live, I play at a 60-120 game at a casino near my house. This 60-120 game is usually easily beatable, however lately there has been a new structure change.

What everyone loves to do is to play, "Everyone Must Straddle" I have my opinions on what this option does for the game I want to know what others think

Is this game more/less profitable?
What is the strategy to beat this game?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-11-2005, 05:35 AM
NLSoldier NLSoldier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Posts: 91
Default Re: The new trend at my casino

its awesome.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-11-2005, 05:38 AM
PokerBob PokerBob is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: St. Paul
Posts: 238
Default Re: The new trend at my casino

[ QUOTE ]
I mostly play on the internet however when I do play live, I play at a 60-120 game at a casino near my house. This 60-120 game is usually easily beatable, however lately there has been a new structure change.

What everyone loves to do is to play, "Everyone Must Straddle" I have my opinions on what this option does for the game I want to know what others think

Is this game more/less profitable?
What is the strategy to beat this game?

[/ QUOTE ]

the intelligence of the average player goes down 50 points when a straddle is involved. I love it.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-11-2005, 05:47 AM
Klepton Klepton is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: don\'t worry i play well post-flop
Posts: 310
Default Re: The new trend at my casino

it's +EV.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-11-2005, 06:25 AM
Ulysses Ulysses is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,519
Default Re: The new trend at my casino

[ QUOTE ]
its awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think of the one guy who says he won't straddle?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-11-2005, 07:24 AM
phish phish is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 47
Default Re: The new trend at my casino

I disagree that it's +EV. It increases the luck element in the game substantially.
The biggest advantage the expert player has is the ability to outplay his opponents post-flop, which often means folding when they would've called. Dumping more money in pre-flop (without any chance of eliminating players) before the major luck factor (the flop) has hit, you are reducing you post-flop edge significantly.
And if you think you can make up the post-flop loss with pre-flop tightness, all that means is that you'll be able to play fewer hands, which is more boring AND less profitable.
To illustrate by using an extreme: Imagine playing a 50/100 game with a 1000 ante. How much skill is there in that game? It'd be completely unplayable from a +EV point of view.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-11-2005, 07:40 AM
TStoneMBD TStoneMBD is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rome, NY
Posts: 268
Default Re: The new trend at my casino

live straddling makes the game much more +ev. it allows players to play more hands preflop which is naturally good for skilled players and you are investing more money preflop so if your preflop skills are better than your opponents youre increasing your ev. however, a game with a live straddle actually makes the game play a little bit higher because the price of play goes up so bankroll and variance becomes an issue.

as most here said the intelligence of alot of players drops when there are straddles in the game and youll often find yourself in a game with crazy players. i would like to see a detailed discussion on correct strategy against straddling however, because like alot of people im not that familiar with live play and when i used to play a turningstone they did not allow a live straddle.

fishy players who are just interested in having a good time wont feel pressured into playing well in a game with live straddling. theyll feel more comfortable messing around because the nature of the game is far less serious. naturally, the more variance you add to a game the more +ev it becomes because variance favors good players in the long run (variance is your friend). of course variance can be hard to deal with so its a tradeoff.

Edit: after rethinking with the help of tessar's post it occurs to me that playing more hands is actually wrong and tightening up is right. a few reasons for this are as follows:

-the straddler is getting more odds on his money to make a preflop call when reraised (credit to tessar)

-your implied odds go down because you are paying more money preflop to win the same amount of bets postflop. this means that preflop equity goes up and postflop equity goes down rewarding good preflop play and reprimanding good postflop play.

-the game will be more aggressive with raises and reraises preflop which dimishes the times you would have been able to see a flop for a limp with suited hands or small pairs.

after having said all that it appears that straddling is clearly -ev for good players strictly according to game theory. i really have no idea if the psychological effects that straddling games have on the players outweighs the -ev aspect of it. i would imagine that after the game plays with a forced straddle for a long period of time, the regulars will all be used to straddling and will have adapted their preflop strategies accordingly and the affects of straddling is not likely to promote maniacal play unless tourists or new players join.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-11-2005, 07:56 AM
tessarji tessarji is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1
Default Re: The new trend at my casino

Here's my ideas on it. I'd also search the archives about the straddle for more delightful discussion.

A mandatory straddle is obviously 0 EV in itself, since everyone bears the same disadvantage on their UTG hand. The effect on the game is determined by how well players adjust.

There are now three blinds, small, big, and double. Obviously avoid paying the double sized blind whenever possible. Posting is a far superior way to enter the game.
If you aren't required to make up the straddle if you miss the blinds, I would try to be absent from the table during blinds whenever possible.

Outside the blinds, a somewhat tighter pre-flop strategy is optimal. You are guaranteed a medium sized pot on any hand you open raise with. Stealing the blinds is obviously much better, but will never occur with the straddler getting 6:1 pot odds at least. Your hand selection should be somewhat skewed towards high card values, and away from 'implied odds' hands. It is critical that you make it 3 bets with pretty much any hand you enter with to drive out the BB. You should remove limping from your pre-flop play.

Although the game is tighter pre-flop, it is much more aggressive. Three and four bets preflop are fairly common, as the best hands fight over the dead money from the blinds. Postflop, it plays just like holdem with a rather larger starting pot (less raising, less slowplaying, since there are usually fewer players to attack and better drawing odds).

Look for hands with good showdown value preflop. You will be going to the river often. Aces to AJo or A9s are great candidates. Low pockets are much worse, even if the straddler misses the flop he will often have correct odds to peel off a card.

Pick your straddle buddy carefully. If players are playing optimally (tight when not in blinds) then many hands will be 2 or 3 way with the raiser in position. Try to get people on your left who release quickly if they miss the flop. This will often be a mistake.

If someone else raises before you, you can cold call in position a little more liberally with a potentially dominated hand like AJo or KJs. This is because the game is proportionally 'smaller' after the flop so you will generally be punished less. A better idea might be to four bet with the best of these hands.

Obviously, you want to lose as little as possible in the blinds. You'll almost always play preflop in the straddle. The BB has it particularly hard with a lot of money invested, and a potential re-raiser after them. Don't get involved in the BB when it is two bets to you without some serious cards, at least JJ/AQ/AJs. Four bet with all these hands.

When you are in the straddle, you'll find yourself playing a lot of mediocre hands against the preflop raiser. Since you will usually be out of position and the pot will be large, get used to a lot of check-raising. In general you should probably not raise much preflop out of the straddle, you'll usually be better off leading or check-raising the flop.

This rule does definitely make more of a two-card game, with less relevant poker strategy post-flop.

Anyone agree or disagree with my take?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-11-2005, 08:37 AM
NLSoldier NLSoldier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Posts: 91
Default Re: The new trend at my casino

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
its awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think of the one guy who says he won't straddle?

[/ QUOTE ]

hes a bundle of sticks. plz dont tell me that you are that guy. I HATE taht guy. especially when it happens to be the jesse ventura lookalike/soundalike in the cb 30 game.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-11-2005, 08:39 AM
Ulysses Ulysses is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,519
Default Re: The new trend at my casino

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
its awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think of the one guy who says he won't straddle?

[/ QUOTE ]

hes a bundle of sticks. plz dont tell me that you are that guy. I HATE taht guy. especially when it happens to be the jesse ventura lookalike/soundalike in the cb 30 game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. I feel the same way about this guy and the guy who makes the guy flip his cards after he has announced his losing hand.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.