Vegas trip post #6: Miracle draws don't just happen on Party

[DrewOnTilt]

Post #6 from my Vegas trip.

It seems as if every time I play online, somebody whines that Party Poker is rigged to favor the longshot draws. It is unbelievable the number of times that I have heard that complaint. The Party chat box and even this web site is full of people who seem to really believe that the suckouts that they see on Party would never happen in a live game. These people annoy me to no end.

It seems as if every time I venture to a B&M casino, I have to hear at least 3 or 4 bad beat whines from people who have apparently forgotten that short-term luck affects everyone, not just bad players. These bad beat whiners always remember the tough beats that they take, but easily forget the times when they themselves have gotten lucky. Their selective memories and the heartbreaking stories that they spew are almost as annoying as the "Party is rigged" complaints.

To those of you whom I just described, I offer the following proof that suckouts happen in live games and that even studious, tight-aggressive players occasionally drag a pot thanks only to pure luck:

Hero has the BB with J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls, 2 callers, a bunch of folds, Hero checks
Flop J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold
Turn: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero bets, UTG raises, MP1 folds, Hero calls
River: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG calls

Results: UTG shows 3 of a kind Jacks with Ace kicker
Heros shows a full house, Jacks full of Fours

Yeah baby! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Those of you who think that suckouts happen only on Party may now be quiet.

Those of you who cry about bad beats may now admit that you have gotten lucky against a stronger hand before, as I did in the posted example.

[daryn]

wow..

how didn't you raise the turn? how didn't he raise the river???

[DrewOnTilt]

I figured I was out-kicked on the turn, and I was right. Why he didn't raise, the river, we will never know. The 4 should not have scared anybody.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems as if every time I venture to a B&M casino, I have to hear at least 3 or 4 bad beat whines from people who have apparently forgotten that short-term luck affects everyone, not just bad players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's worse sometimes in a B&M casino because you can actually see the other person who delivered the bad beat. This phenomenon seems to put people on tilt even more, when the person is close enough that you can reach out and wrap your hands around their throat.

Personally, online it doesn't bug me as much as live play sometimes. For example, and I mentioned this in another post, there was a hand over the weekend where I picked up TT on the button. Couple of limpers, I raise, SB folds, BB, who just moved to that seat because the last one he was sitting at didn't get any cards, calls, limpers call. Flop of say 983 rainbow. Checked to me, I bet, BB and MP call. Turn is a 5. Checked to me, I bet again, BB calls, MP fold. River is a 2. Now BB bets out. I stew for a second, trying to figure out what he rivered, and only think it could maybe be A4, or maybe just top pair he thought was good. I call and he says "two pair".....turning over 32o. I turbo-muck, and to add insult to injury, a player not in the hand asks to see my cards, which weren't quite far enough into the muck because the dealer pulled them out to show the guy.

Anyway, yes, this was an excuse to tell a bad beat story. But I just think B&M bad beats are harder to handle when you're face to face with the person afterwards. In this case the idiot in the hand, an older guy who was wearing ridiculous looking aviator sunglasses, rationalized his play by telling me he had a feeling on the hand because of the seat change.

[rmgustaf]

Dealers can show your cards to people not in the hand? That's pretty much BS... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[AncientPC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It seems as if every time I venture to a B&M casino, I have to hear at least 3 or 4 bad beat whines from people who have apparently forgotten that short-term luck affects everyone, not just bad players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's worse sometimes in a B&M casino because you can actually see the other person who delivered the bad beat. This phenomenon seems to put people on tilt even more, when the person is close enough that you can reach out and wrap your hands around their throat.

Personally, online it doesn't bug me as much as live play sometimes. For example, and I mentioned this in another post, there was a hand over the weekend where I picked up TT on the button. Couple of limpers, I raise, SB folds, BB, who just moved to that seat because the last one he was sitting at didn't get any cards, calls, limpers call. Flop of say 983 rainbow. Checked to me, I bet, BB and MP call. Turn is a 5. Checked to me, I bet again, BB calls, MP fold. River is a 2. Now BB bets out. I stew for a second, trying to figure out what he rivered, and only think it could maybe be A4, or maybe just top pair he thought was good. I call and he says "two pair".....turning over 32o. I turbo-muck, and to add insult to injury, a player not in the hand asks to see my cards, which weren't quite far enough into the muck because the dealer pulled them out to show the guy.

Anyway, yes, this was an excuse to tell a bad beat story. But I just think B&M bad beats are harder to handle when you're face to face with the person afterwards. In this case the idiot in the hand, an older guy who was wearing ridiculous looking aviator sunglasses, rationalized his play by telling me he had a feeling on the hand because of the seat change.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that live suck outs are worse than online suckouts. For one, it makes the fish real and tangible. Secondly, you can't shrug it off and play another 400 hands across 4 tables but have to wait it out.

[Vex]

[ QUOTE ]
Dealers can show your cards to people not in the hand? That's pretty much BS... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm given to understand that that rule is in place to combat collusion. In reality I've seen it used just to gain information, or to get someone upset. I agree that the rule sucks. Here are some things you can do to prevent its abuse:

1> Sit in seat 1 or 2, so the muck is within easy reach. When you fold, deliberately bury your cards.

2> If someone asks to see your cards, ask them if they think you are cheating. When they say "no", tell them that next time anyone at the table asks to see your folded cards, you're getting the floor involved.