Too tight?

oxymoron · #1 05-21-2005, 05:41 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed) converter

BB (t1520)
UTG (t2530)
Button (t900)
Hero (t3050)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Button raises to t900 (All-In), Hero calls t750, 1 fold.

Flop: (t2100) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t2100) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t2100) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t2100

Results in white below: 
Button has Ah 2h (high card, ace).
Hero has 6c 3c (flush, queen high).
Outcome: Hero wins t2100.

Jman28 · #2 05-21-2005, 05:44 AM

what?

Newt_Buggs · #3 05-21-2005, 06:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
what?

[/ QUOTE ]
i'm confused to

why is this thread labeled "too tight?"

DasLeben · #4 05-21-2005, 06:04 AM

Well he's getting almost 2:1, and they are sooted. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

oxymoron · #5 05-21-2005, 03:14 PM

Just for fun (and for those too lazy to use poker stove) here are some stats:

Ah2h vs 3c6c 57%/43%

I knew he was pushing with a lot of hands but no way I could tell he had a 2 so let's say he had a 5.

Ah5h vs 3c6c 61%/39%

Now what if I have a K intead of the 6?

Ah2h vs Kc3c 59%/40%
Ah5h vs Kc3c 63%/37%

How about two cards higher than mine?

Ah8h vs 6c3c 63%/37%
AhKh vs 6c3c 63%/37%

Okay, now what about pot odds. I was getting close to 2:1 pot odds to call. I knew he was pushing any two and the only senerio he is kicking my ass in is if he has a pocket pair higher than my six (80/20).

So, I'm getting 2:1 pot odds and close to 2:1 odds. I'm also big daddy chip leader who has been pushing the board around. Easy call.

Nick B. · #6 05-21-2005, 03:37 PM

I hope this is a joke post, but since you only have 20 posts, I suspect it isn't. This is a really awful play and nobody should make it (except my opponents). If you really are trying to justify your actions with numbers, you can't completely forget about the BB picking up a hand. You aren't a big chipleader, and if you lost this pot you managed to make it 4 equal stacks on the bubble.

DasLeben · #7 05-21-2005, 03:47 PM

Well, to be fair I ran the numbers in eastbay's magic 8-ball thingy, and it says "fold." The only time that this is a call is...well...never. Even if he's pushing with any two, it's ICM neutral and not even worth it.

citanul · #8 05-21-2005, 04:26 PM

as can be gleaned from another post, i think you're an idiot. but disregarding that other thread for now, i'll explain why you're an idiot just based on this thread, and hopefully you'll learn something from it:

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, now what about pot odds. I was getting close to 2:1 pot odds to call. I knew he was pushing any two and the only senerio he is kicking my ass in is if he has a pocket pair higher than my six (80/20).

So, I'm getting 2:1 pot odds and close to 2:1 odds. I'm also big daddy chip leader who has been pushing the board around. Easy call.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not going to dispute the math that you did at all, because well, i don't care, it's irrelevent to the actual hand, and to top it off, i didn't read it.

let's do a parsing job here:

you are the chip leader -> check (sweet)
you are not a BIG chip leader -> check (doh! but let's see what we can do about it)
it is the bubble -> check (sweet, that's key #1 to making more chips, given the answers to questions 1 and 2)
you have been "pushing the board around" -> check
there is one stack shorter than the others -> check

so you've been having an easy time getting chips for free, and you're the chip leader, and there's a gap created by there being a guy who's short enough that the other two people do not want to bust "stupidly" before he busts out.

the question then becomes, and you need to really understand what the answer to this question is, even though it is heavilly hinted by wording, before you can have any hope of being good at these tournaments:

why on earth would you want to end the bubble?

answers: none

why would you want the bubble to continue?

answers: you are the chip leader and have been having an easy time taking riskless chips off of your opponents, which will allow you to both increase your stack AND increase your lead, while pummelling the other people with chips, until someone is forced to bust the short guy (since you're certainly not going to do it without a monster hand). also, as was pointed out to you, if you lose this hand, you've gone from slight chip leader to even stacks on the bubble. why give up your edge 60% of the time? letting the guy have the 300 chips or whatever that he's stealing isn't going to hurt you, it may infact help you.

additionally, you should consider that yes, people know what % of the time a given hand wins in run outs with other ranges, before going off and spewing the numbers like you're a genius. taking a moment to consider that perhaps another person has a reason for thinking that you're wrong is the best thing to do before immediately running off and starting your next post about why you're right.

your original post, btw, has apparently 0 content except for of the "aren't i so smart, i made a pot odds call" except you even left out that part, and just cut and pasted a hand. it looks a lot like you're first post was fishing for either a "man you're so smart" or a flaming, and well, i think you deserved one and not the other. not just for the hand, but for your posting style.

citanul

edit: it's also the "easy call" line of your post that i have issue with. it implies that you're super sure of what you're talking about and anyone else is some kind of idiot. only really funny when you're wrong.

Newt_Buggs · #9 05-21-2005, 05:45 AM

I muck this, your hand sucks

oxymoron · #10 05-21-2005, 05:49 AM

That's the beauty of it.