a hand MLG and Tyler disagreed about

Tyler Durden · #1 02-14-2005, 05:42 PM

What do you think of my flop play? Thanks much.
Party $100 NL MTT.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (10 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

MP1 (t450)
MP2 (t2280)
MP3 (t860)
CO (t2255)
Button (t755)
SB (t1720)
BB (t3130)
UTG (t2140)
UTG+1 (t625)
Hero (t910)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls t20, 1 fold, Hero calls t20, MP1 calls t20, 1 fold, MP3 raises to t65, CO calls t65, 1 fold, SB calls t55, BB calls t45, UTG calls t45, Hero calls t45, MP1 folds.

Flop: (t410) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO bets t125, SB folds, BB calls t125, UTG folds, Hero calls t125, MP3 calls t125.

Turn: (t910) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero is all-in for 720, MP3 folds, CO folds, BB calls t720.

River: (t1630) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t1630

Results in white below: 
BB has Tc 9h (two pair, tens and nines).
Hero has Td Qd (two pair, queens and tens).
Outcome: Hero wins t1630.

TheJackal · #2 02-14-2005, 06:04 PM

I think you played it right, although with that coordinated of a board and that many callers, I think you can expect a call or two most of the time. I don't think its all that bad though, because you should have 11 outs most of the time and combined with the folding equity your push should gain you, I think its the right play. If you call flop, you have to push the turn I think is what it comes down to.

hurlyburly · #3 02-14-2005, 06:20 PM

That push on the turn was either very foolish or very well calculated. How were you able to eliminate KQ-KJ from the range of hands you were facing? I've got MP3 on AK here, is that what you were banking on?

Nice catch on the end, would you play it the same way again?

Prime Time · #4 02-14-2005, 06:23 PM

Hand should be mucked pre-flop

Prime Time · #5 02-14-2005, 06:25 PM

Hero calls flop bet.

Tyler Durden · #6 02-14-2005, 06:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
That push on the turn was either very foolish or very well calculated. How were you able to eliminate KQ-KJ from the range of hands you were facing? I've got MP3 on AK here, is that what you were banking on?

Nice catch on the end, would you play it the same way again?

[/ QUOTE ]

After playing the flop in the manner that I did, I think pushing the turn is the only play. Read The Jackal's reply for my thoughts on this.

Yes I would play it the same way.

Tyler Durden · #7 02-14-2005, 06:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand should be mucked pre-flop

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to disagree here PT. I think preflop is an easy call, both the original limp and the call of the small raise in a multiway pot w/ a suited one gapper and good implied odds should I hit a big hand.

Tyler Durden · #8 02-14-2005, 06:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hero calls flop bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the tough part of the hand. I was looking to peel one to see if I could improve my hand. I was getting big odds to call the flop and didn't want to raise w/ just second pair in a highly contested raised pot.

MonkeeMan · #9 02-14-2005, 06:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand should be mucked pre-flop

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with folding when he limped. After that though, he was good in calling the raise.

Prime Time · #10 02-14-2005, 06:34 PM

Hero pushes turn.

All of these plays are negative EV.
1) Its a trouble hand like the one you are in, and should be mucked pre-flop.
2) Most likely behind w/ 2nd pair bad Kicker and flush draw out, should be folded to turn bet.
3) Usually you will only be called if beat. Push is bad.
Think you you got very lucky here.
This type of playing is a recipe for disaster.

Sorry to have to say this.
Your pal Prime