Sometimes you just get outplayed.

[bernie]

Not sure how much there is to discuss on this one, but i thought i'd throw it out there. I thought it was kind of interesting.

Great 10-20 at mucks. Getting a cramped ass after about 9+ hours of sitting there spinning my wheels.

Loose limper (EP) limps. Next in, I raise my AKs. Folded to LP who calls, BB calls as does the limper and me.

FLOP K Q x rainbow

I open, LP raises rather confidently, folded to me, i call. My little sense is tingling. My first thought is KQ, but then again, maybe a free card play. The table has been playing kind of tight when raising me. This player i one of the more solid players of the opponents.

Turn blank.

I bet. LP gets a 'wtf?' look on his face. hmm. I guess he isnt drawing. He calls. I dont think he has 2 pair, or a set at this point, obviously. I haven't seen this look too often so im not too sure what it is. Very interesting reaction. Looking back, i think it can be obvious what he has. Especially once you add in how confident his flop raise was. I miss it though, and file it away for later notes.

River A

I bet, LP raises, I call not expecting to win. This is one where i'm sure i'm beat, but i'm not sure what is beating me which is why i'm calling. I want to see what he was reacting to on the turn.

RESULTS in white technicolor:
<font color="white"> LP had AA. "Ouch!" says my chipstack. </font>

b

[Sully]

Actually, I'm not sure he "outplayed" you, since this one pretty much plays itself on his end.

However, this hand is a good example of respecting the "sense". Top pair, top kicker on the flop, and you just KNEW you were beat. This is a hard laydown, but you have to repect the "sense", especially when it's a solid player that is making it tingle.

Respect the "sense". It is your friend.

[joker122]

I don't get it...why was AA so obvious? Also, I don't think he played his hand optimally as he missed some bets.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't get it...why was AA so obvious?

[/ QUOTE ]

The confidence in his flop raise against a somewhat tight(me) preflop raiser with the board how it is along with the fact he'd raise the turn with 2 pair or a set. If he had those, what would scare him to only calling the turn? Me betting after he raised me threw him off a bit. His reaction is why i knew he wasnt drawing to a hand. So you can narrow it down to a pair.

Though, he could have AK also.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I don't think he played his hand optimally as he missed some bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I almost posed this question. Against me and my hand, i think he played it optimally. Against the field, i think you're right that he missed some bets. If the field was bigger, i might like his preflop smoothcall a little more.

Another thing to maybe ponder in regards to that. I've thought about it long ago, but this kind of reminds me of it. Do a tight players chips, because they're tougher to get, have a little more value(not monetarily, of course)? Primarily because they are a pain in the ass to get. After all, you'll have plenty of opps for the looser players chips. Much like if you see a tight player and a loose player in a hand, you'd like the looser player to win, thereby gaining easier access to the tighter players chips. I thought about this way back in my first 'rock garden' game.

b

[ike]

[ QUOTE ]
If the field was bigger, i might like his preflop smoothcall a little more.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the exact opposite of correct. While the reraise is automatic here too, failing to make it is an even bigger mistake against a larger field. Sacrificing early bets as a big leader is more acceptable against a smaller field where deception adds more value to your hand. As it is more difficult to control a larger field you simply have to jam your hand and see who wants to call you down.

[bernie]

Not necesarily. There have been many posts in the past, some by Mason(hands to talk about), that supported this smoothcall in multiway pots. Though, position-wise, they were in the blinds i think.

I think Clark had a hand posted on this concept also. 'I can't play like Mason' or something rather.

I prefer 3 betting personally.

b

[stir]

[ QUOTE ]
[Do a tight players chips, because they're tougher to get, have a little more value(not monetarily, of course)? ]

Not trying to be argumentative here, but what value? a $5 chip is a $5 chip whether it comes from a maniac, a rock, an L/P, a stone killer.

So I'd like to hear your take on the kind of value you are alluding to.

[Fianchetto]

I think he is saying that it is easier to get a loose players chips than it is from someone who playes well.

Like when I see a maniac drag a huge pot with some garbage hand, I'm happy for him, and me. Because I know that in a relatively short period of time those chips will be redistributed to the table, hopefully to my stack. Whereas if a tight player wins a big pot they are less likely to gamble it up and give it all back.

[badinfluence]

LP clearly missed bets.

Preflop - he raises. You may play back at him, EP may or may not stay in (1-2 BB)

Flop - he 3 bets. (.5 BB)

Turn - River - could be 0 BB- 2BB depending on how you play it ...

Question: you get raised on the turn, do you fold?

Do you really think you got outplayed ... hell, I consider this a favor!

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[Do a tight players chips, because they're tougher to get, have a little more value(not monetarily, of course)? ]

Not trying to be argumentative here, but what value? a $5 chip is a $5 chip whether it comes from a maniac, a rock, an L/P, a stone killer.

So I'd like to hear your take on the kind of value you are alluding to.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

when assessing relative values for anything probabilities are attached.

if you weight the chips not in your stack with the probability of those chips ending up in your stack then the value of the chips in a loose players stack are more than the value of those same chips in a tight player's stack b/c the associated probability of ending up with those chips (tight player's chips) is reduced.

-Barron