How's your SSNLHE?: 22

[PokerFink]

For one thing, I don't it's a fair to compare the 22 situation in the OP as equal to the three examples you just gave. The 66 that flops an OESD is not UI. And the 99 overpair and TT boat have the advantage of you're either behind a bigger pp, or you're ahead. In the 22 situation, the PFR could easily have some garbage like 79o and still be ahead. The PFR could have anything, so he might have hit that board. That is a dimension that just isn't present in the 99 and TT examples.

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, we end up mixing concepts in these cases, but how is that a bad thing? Are we just semantically off here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good question that is hard to answer. I know that one of my biggest cash cows is big pairs that flop and overpair, while my opponent flops a smaller overpair. I stack these people ruthlessly, because they can't get away from their 99 overpair. So that would suggest that, yes, there is a problem with mixing the two concepts.

On the other hand, I would like to think that 2p2ers are good enough postflop players to not loose their stack every time their 99 runs into QQ and the flop comes seven high.

In the 99 situation, it's worth investing a bet (or check/raising, depending on opponent) to find out whether the opponent has QQ or QK. But in the 22 situation, I don't think it is, because it's not as cut and dry. Villian could have a bigger pair, missed overs, OR a piece of the board. The situation becomes murky, there is a smaller chance you're ahead, and I think it makes it a -EV situation which calls for a check/fold.

When the situation is more cut and dry, it becomes easier to play, and therefore is +EV.

[GoCubsGo]

[ QUOTE ]
He PFR'd UTG with K7s and Q9o. He limped UTG with J3s.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not very enthusiastic about calling here, for this reason. OOP and you have no idea what he has. When you make your set he can easily lay down his queen high, as opposed to a tight player that may be raising with AQ and doesn't want to let go of his overs just yet. Another problem is on that 953 flop, he could actually have a better hand than you! No matter what the board reads, you can't be too confident that you have the best hand. I don't see much value here.

Now, if you raise preflop, that changes everything. You will probably take it right there, and if not, you will get paid a lot more if you do hit your set. He has also defined his hand at least a little for you.

[ajmargarine]

[ QUOTE ]


22 is not the 13th best hand possible. My head hurts after reading that statement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, you're right. I knew it was 50/50 agst AKs. Assumed it was no worse than that vs all other non-pairs. Just ran it thru some simulations. 49/51 dog vs T6s. 47/53 vs 78s. Slight favorite over unsuited overs. Very very small edge to push. I stand corrected.

[jaydub]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


22 is not the 13th best hand possible. My head hurts after reading that statement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, you're right. I knew it was 50/50 agst AKs. Just ran it thru some simulations. 49/51 dog vs T6s. 47/53 vs 78s. Slight favorite over unsuited overs. Very very small edge to push. I stand corrected.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. Really, just wow. Good luck.

[orange]

To those who like limping with 22 PF as opposed to raising-

I can understand the desire to not play in a raised pot OOP with 22. But say we complete and BB raises. Aren't we calling most of the time anyway? Do you guys just complete/fold in this situation? I like being the aggressor in this situation, and raising seems best to me.

JMO.

[PokerFink]

Personally, I will:

If villian is shortstacked (~50BB) I'll just fold. Unless they are really, really bad postflop.

If villian is not shortstacked (~75+BB) I will call if the raise is to 3xBB and maybe 4xBB.

Obviously it depends a lot on their postflop play. If I think I can stack them with a set if they hit any pair, I'm going to call. If they are tigher postflop, I'll just fold.

As for raising to begin with, I don't think this is a bad option. Personally, I rarely raise with small pairs, I try to see cheap flops with them. But it is rarely incorrect to take the betting lead, so raising to begin with is fine if you're a competant postflop player.

[TheWorstPlayer]

i cf flop. sa/wb.

[xorbie]

PF here should be a raise IMO. And bet/fold the flop. Or just fold PF. 22 sucks HU OOP when villain is playing top 30% of his hands or more.