Hand 1 and Hand 2

[josie_wales]

He all,

Both hands are played at $1BB tables.

HAND 1:

There are 3 limpers to me at a passive, rarely raised preflop table in the CO-1 with 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I call as do the CO and the Button, blinds are in, and the flop is


($8) 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

It is check to me and I ($170) bet pot $8, CO ($120) raises to $16, and the SB ($100) is the only caller to me.

I call the extra $8 (would a fold be too weak? can I raise?)

Turn is
($56) 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

The SB goes all in for about $83.

I fold.



HAND #2

I am in the BB with 66. There are 3 callers to the SB($140) who raises it to $5, I call the extra $4 (average amount of preflop raising and several callers are the norm)

The pre-flop raiser seems decent in the 3 oribts Ive been with him. Not too many hands, raised a few.

There are a total of 3 of us to the flop:

$18 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]


SB leads out for $15

Hero.....?

More to follow...

[montybear]

In hand two, I'd put the SB on something like AK and is betting to protect his hand against someones spade draw. If you think the guy behind you will fold, then I'd flat call, to try and get heads up against SB. Otherwise I raise to force him out. But, I'm just a newbie so take my advice with a chunk of salt

[Yeti]

I don't like your fold in Hand 1 at all. You think he'd overbet the pot here with the nut straight? Seems to me he has something like two pair.

Hand 2 - call the flop, hope the 3rd guy also calls (or raises!). Raise the turn if a non-spade comes, make a judgment call if it does.

[Zag]

Hand 1: Yeti's comment is that the nuts would not overbet so extremely, but that is exactly what I see a lot of people do with their nuts on these tables. I was about to say that you should have reraised on the flop, but that would have put you almost pot committed anyway (raise would have to be to $55 or 60, or more than half oppenents' stacks), so I take it back.

I do think that a raise preflop might have been an interesting tactic. I love to raise with these hands when I am in late position and everyone has folded to me. I would say that roughly half of the raises I make in this situation are these sorts of speculative hands. Note that this means that half of them are big hands, so a truly aware player would still not have odds to charge back at me, but it also means that he can't play postflop with too much confidence, either. If they are adequately fearful, they will just fold a medium hand (like KQ or KJ) to avoid getting into it.

I guess I can't see any different way to play it that would have been better. Ever since I started telling myself that a bad fold is not as bad as a bad call, I have been winning more consistantly. This is just the sort of case where it applies -- you might be making a bad fold, but you might be making a bad call if you call, and that would be worse.

Hand 2: If he has raised in "a few" hands in only 3 orbits, then his raising requirements are a lot looser than AA-QQ. I smell AK, and you should break him. However, you really do not want to give the person behind you odds at any of the various draws that are out there. Raise right now and plan to get all in with the hand. You might lose the original bettor, especially if he only has AQ, but it is better than letting J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] call along cheaply.

You might be running headlong into QQ and doubling him up, but that is just a tough break. I don't see you getting away from a set for only 140 BBs. If you both had started with 500 BBs, you might get away from the set for around 90 BBs, but with these stacks, once you are that deep you might as well put him all in.

[schwza]

hand 1: i really don't like the call on the flop. you have a big hand right now, but a 7, J, or Q kills it. a 6, 8, 9, or T would also be unfortunate for you (6 kills action, 8-T might lose you the pot).

if you fold to the initial min-raise that's WAYYYYY too tight. you have the 3rd nut right now, but it's vulnerable. definite raise.

and then an easy call when the SB pushes the turn. the A is a great card for you - one of the few that leaves you with the 3rd nut (if you don't think the SB would complete J7o, you essentially have the 2nd nut). it also can make someone a 2 pair hand, as someone else said.

also, there's no reason to think of SB's push as an "overbet." he goes all-in for $83 into a $57 pot, which is less that 1.5x pot. he's not going to pot it on the turn and leave himself with $26 behind for the river - that's just a bet. which you should call.

i'd raise, but i'm not sure it's the right play. my tendency has been to slow-play only very rarely (almost never when there is a 2-flush, and especially not with 2 broadway cards [b/c of str8]). if reraised, i'd be okay with getting all the chips in here and hoping to see an overplayed AA/AK (or KQ if he has loose pre-flop raising standards).

[amoeba]

Hand 1 is tough but most of the time I am calling here.

hand 2 : if you always fear set over set then you should fold all your mid pocket pairs preflop to a raise.

[amoeba]

read Jerber77's thread on how he played his set of 8s.

It reads almost identical to what villain did in your hand 1.

I still put villain on a set. When the Ace came, he is hoping you made 2 pair with your TPTK and is trying to get you to call his push.

[josie_wales]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like your fold in Hand 1 at all. You think he'd overbet the pot here with the nut straight? Seems to me he has something like two pair.


[/ QUOTE ]

I would. The pot is awfully large and I dont want boats to fill or flushs to come in.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 - call the flop, hope the 3rd guy also calls (or raises!).

[/ QUOTE ]

By flat calling his $15 bet I am making a flush draw awwwwfullllly juicy for our next villain to act.

[josie_wales]

In Hand 2 when we last saw our hero...

There are a total of 3 of us to the flop:

$18 6 Q K


SB leads out for $15

Here raises to $35

MP calls, and SB Pushes (about another $60 or so to me)

Hero?

[schwza]

call, even though it sounds like it didn't go well for you. stacks are too shallow to get away from a set in a raised pot.