JJ Hand - Page 3

imported_anacardo · #21 07-03-2005, 08:29 PM

Believe it or not, I did not notice that you were reraised. Assuming a typical opponent's reraising range, this line goes from rather questionable to very nice. I like on every street. Results?

yellowjack · #22 07-03-2005, 08:37 PM

I like the amount you bet at the river. What are you putting the villain on? The min reraise PF seems fishy to me, reeking of a premium hand unless you've seen him to do this with less than great holdings.

sammy_g · #23 07-03-2005, 11:02 PM

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Believe it or not, I did not notice that you were reraised. Assuming a typical opponent's reraising range, this line goes from rather questionable to very nice. I like on every street. Results?

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thank you [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

villain folded, and i took it down. i'm curious what he had.

sammy_g · #24 07-03-2005, 11:06 PM

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I like the amount you bet at the river.

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thanks

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What are you putting the villain on? The min reraise PF seems fishy to me, reeking of a premium hand unless you've seen him to do this with less than great holdings.

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yeah, i'm not sure really. my first thought was big pair, but i've seen players min raise strange holdings in this game. i was a bit lost in the hand, which is why i posted it.

vulturesrow · #25 07-04-2005, 02:41 AM

I also would like some serious explanation about why people arent raising JJ UTG? You are far more likely to get yourself in a tough situation by limping with it than if you raise.

fuzzbox · #26 07-04-2005, 04:19 AM

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I also would like some serious explanation about why people arent raising JJ UTG? You are far more likely to get yourself in a tough situation by limping with it than if you raise.

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Thats not true - if you limp it up front then you can happily check/fold on a K84 flop. Sure - you might get bluffed, but you wont lose a whole lot of money with it.

Limping, then calling a raise with JJ up front and seeing a 9-high flop is pretty nice too.

If you raise UTG then players with AJs, ATs, AQo, etc might fold. If you limp then on a flop of AJ6 you might just get yourself some fine action and win a monster pot. If you raised, got one caller, you might just get no action on the same flop.

Also - if you raise UTG, see a K84 flop, bet and get called - then you either have to try to bash your way through, or check/fold. Both options are costly.

Thus - if you limp it up front, then you get yourself into less difficulties - and probably lose more *often* but perhaps win more *money* (by win more - we include lose less).

That said - raising it UTG is not a bad play either. Its a question of taste I guess. I normally limp it UTG - but I might raise it if I feel like it. I might make a shutout raise with it from the blinds ... if there are a few limpers.

All in all, you get yourself into more tough situations by raising it up front, than by limping it up front.

C M Burns · #27 07-04-2005, 04:39 AM

This thread literally cost me money. I started to wonder whether I really did want to be raising in ep in a full game w/ JJ. So I tried limping ug. 1st time, guy put a big raises in in lp, I fold, turns out he had 32s, a guy calls him to the river and wins w/ an unimproved 55. But the main one I limp ug, no raises, I flop top set end up losing my stack to a guy who hit a strt with a trash hand. So no more limping w/ JJ for me.

But really its a good hand and you want to limit the feild, most of the time a flop bet wins the pot anyway, and many people will call a raise w/ small pairs and suited conectors and may give you some action with an underpair, putting you on AK or a w/ a draw. at least in the 1/2 nl games I play. and even when you do hit a set it is tough to get action in an unrased pot.

But really your hand has little to do with JJ. really you are just bluffing the river, and since he would have to have a Q or 9 to call you it will prob work, and you played it like you could have Aq, he like AA or KK or a very weak AK, or QQ but of course very unlikley.

vulturesrow · #28 07-04-2005, 04:41 AM

If you let people limp in then you are creating unfavorable conditions for your JJ. It is not hand that plays multiway well period. If you are going to limp, you are basically playing it for set value. IF you let people limp in its pretty hard to put them on any sort of hand. I guess you can play it either way, but I think you are giving up too much by limping.

fuzzbox · #29 07-04-2005, 05:00 AM

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If you let people limp in then you are creating unfavorable conditions for your JJ. It is not hand that plays multiway well period. If you are going to limp, you are basically playing it for set value. IF you let people limp in its pretty hard to put them on any sort of hand. I guess you can play it either way, but I think you are giving up too much by limping.

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As I said - you lose more *pots*, but can win more money.
Situations where you win good money with JJ are when you are in position and play it for the best hand, or when you flop a J. Situations that are bad, are when you are out of position - and an overcard falls - and you bet and get called. Or even worse, when you are OOP and you flop an overpair, and you bet and get called.

You might win more pots when you raise UTG with JJ, but my experience is that I make less *money* with it if I lift it up UTG with JJ. Thats not to say that I never raise JJ UTG - but my default is to limp it in.

I fail to see what you give up by limping JJ in EP. Please enlighten me.

vulturesrow · #30 07-04-2005, 05:16 AM

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I fail to see what you give up by limping JJ in EP. Please enlighten me.

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Im not trying to "enlighten" anyone, Im just giving my opinion. Chances are that you have the best of it preflop with JJ. Isnt that what poker is about, getting your money in when you have the best of it? Do you disagree with the contention that JJ plays poorly in a multiway pot? My guess in the long run how you play JJ UTG isnt going to affect you much either way. I am more comfortable raising UTG.