PC-ness has replaced logic & reasoning.

[benkahuna]

[ QUOTE ]
"There's no genetic obstacle preventing a black person from winning the Nobel prize in physics"

Prove this. You can not.

How bout this one: Women are tiny % Nobel science prize winners proportionally as compared to men.

How bout this one: Blacks are tiny % Nobel science prize winners proportionally as compared to other races.

Race matters. All the 'social construct' BS is salve for the PC crowd and the race hustlers like Cornell West and Jesse Jackson. The day when we again are able to admit that race matters will be the day that racial tension begins to ebb and many currently intractable, socially poisonous problems will begin to be solved.

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Look at the history of the very notion of race and it quickly becomes clear that the very notion of race began as a means to belittle people that looked different from colonial aggressors which facilitated taking from the belittled people land and other resources. Every genetic difference was found (e.g., Tay Sachs, sickle cell trait) after the fact among individuals with shared ancestry. The only thing that's changed is that there is now some history of the notion of race (giving the idea some specious validity) and that colonialism has changed form in many places, often into the form of domestic neocolonialism.

There is not one single piece of evidence that race exists and that genetic differences in intellectual ability are related to something that actually may have meaning in genetic terms, shared ancenstry. I challenge you to provide even one article from a peer reviewed, reputable, scientific journal with a convincing study to contradict my claim. Don't bother with some cheap pseudoscientific (correlative) study.

You merely choose to interpret available studies to reinforce your racism.

[ QUOTE ]
There is not one single piece of scientific evidence that race exists and that genetic differences in intellectual ability are related to something that actually may have meaning in genetic terms, shared ancenstry.

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This is correct, and beyond debate at present. Sorry to interrupt but it needed to be said.

And yet I still make my point. So what is it that I'm saying?

[hmkpoker]

Thank you Ben [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I wanted to say something, but I didn't feel it was worth arguing with him

[Darryl_P]

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I challenge you to provide even one article from a peer reviewed, reputable, scientific journal with a convincing study to contradict my claim.

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This would be a reasonable request if the following statement by the Unabomber (from his manifesto )weren't obviously true:

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12. Those who are most sensitive about "politically incorrect" terminology are not the average black ghetto-dweller, Asian immigrant, abused woman or disabled person, but a minority of activists, many of whom do not even belong to any "oppressed" group but come from privileged strata of society. Political correctness has its stronghold among university professors, who have secure employment with comfortable salaries, and the majority of whom are heterosexual, white males from middle-class families.


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Just because a series of observations hasn't been formally recorded and verified (by people who are biased in the direction of where their funding comes from) doesn't mean they are not correct. Perhaps it means it does not constitute any sort of proof , but if you can rise above all the mistrust and paranoia and try to figure out what makes the other guy tick, you can learn a lot by listening to his observations about the world.

Maybe he's got an agenda. Maybe you do too. Maybe not. One thing's for certain, though -- universities (and other bodies sanctioning official studies) definitely do and it's in the direction of political correctness.

[hmkpoker]

We're JUST arguing that the apparent prevalence of athletic prowess in blacks is not based on evolution from jungle survival.

That's it.

No PC bullcrap.


I'd at this point like to address this steaming pile of literary defecation that FIFish pointed out:

[ QUOTE ]
Race matters. All the 'social construct' BS is salve for the PC crowd and the race hustlers like Cornell West and Jesse Jackson. The day when we again are able to admit that race matters will be the day that racial tension begins to ebb and many currently intractable, socially poisonous problems will begin to be solved.

[/ QUOTE ]

What socially poisonous problems will be solved? The problems that right-wingers complain about (affirmative action, etc) come about BECAUSE race is entered as a factor.

[FlFishOn]

This is specific to the US and native born Blacks.

We will never even begin to solve the problem of Black criminality and irresponsible parenting until we admit that Whites and Blacks are different. Genetic? Cultural? I don't know and it doesn't matter, but there is undisputable data that screams out that Blacks and Whites respond differently to important life choices. Using the same solutions for both groups gets you divergent results, full prisons, sh+tty HS graduation rates and yet another generation of disfunctional citizens.

Racist? You betcha.

[hmkpoker]

So what's your solution?

[FlFishOn]

As I see it, the root problem is the very many disfunctional Black families. Fix that and much overall improvement will follow. It took 40 years for 'The Great Society' programs to get us here. Those programs have drastically changed incentives and behaviors, a few for the better, many for the worse, both for Black and White.

Nothing I say as far as a specific change has any chance of being proposed, much less seriously considered. But the one underlying idea is to change the incentives that lead to fatherless households and then check your results in 40 more years.

I've heard Economics described as 'the dismal science' but this is much more depressing.

[miketurner]

[ QUOTE ]
As I see it, the root problem is the very many disfunctional Black families.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why does a conversation on whether & why blacks are more athletic (and why it's not PC to even say that) turn into a conversation on “fixing the problem?” And what problem would that be?... That white men can’t jump?

[Darryl_P]

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What socially poisonous problems will be solved? The problems that right-wingers complain about (affirmative action, etc) come about BECAUSE race is entered as a factor.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with this statement. IMO, the problems come about from HOW race is brought into the equation, and not THAT it is brought into the equation -- big difference.

Yes it's true that frivolous violence is worse than having a frivolous taboo, but that doesn't change the fact that the optimal solution is to have neither.