River Snafu

[JasonP530]

25/50 online.

UTG limps, cutoff limps, button limps, small blind completes and I check A8o in the BB. All opponents are a little loose(25-30), and a little agressive(over 1.5 AF).

Flop is a nice 853 and 2 hearts(I have no hearts). I bet and all 4 call.


The turn is a Q. I bet and only UTG and the button call.

River is a 9. No flush. I bet. UTG folded and the button raised, and I folded.

What do you think of the river bet? and fold to a raise?

Thanks,
Jason

[lil feller]

w/out knowing his river aggresion its tough to say. Its hard to imagine what worse hands will call the river, and its equally hard to imagine what worse hands will bet the river if we check.

The more I think about it, the more I like your line. It might extract value from some goofball intent on showing down bottom pair, and probably won't get raised unless you're behind.

lf

I wouldve played your hand the same way up to the river. On the river I would check. I'm not saying betting this river is wrong however, I think its actually very close. Heres why I would check: First of all, If you were against just one opponent this situation is alot easier to handle. You should bet the river if you think your opponent is unlikely to bluff raise, and you also think he will call with more hands than he would bet with. Also, Against one opponent, you should check and call when you are up against the type of opponent who is capable of bluff raising and will also bet more hands that he wouldve called with(hands like broken flush draws and lower pairs)
(One other point, I purposely left out the check/fold line against a weak-tight, never bluff, type opponent since I find this type of opponent quite rare; most of the time you will be in the above 2 scenarios)
Now lets move on to your situation, with your marginal hand against 2 opponents. This situation is more complicated becuz now the probability of you having the best hand here is significantly less than if you up against just one opponent, this factor alone does not make betting incorrect. The main reason I would check this river is becuz of all the times you can possibly save money. For instance. If you check the river and the action goes: Bet- Raise, you have any easy fold and you have thus saved an extra big bet, or if you check the river and it goes: Bet-Call you can also usually fold safely since the odds of you having both the bettor and the caller beat are usally not high enough compared to the pot size to justify a call, so once again you save yourself a big bet. So when I am against 2 or more opponents with a marginal hand, I tend to check/call or check/fold depending on the action since this line can save me some big bets from time to time and I believe the big bets saved from this line more than make up for the big bets gained by the bet/call or bet/fold line on this river with your hand. To reiterate, I am not saying betting this river is wrong, just letting you know how I would handle this delicate situaton.

[ihardlyknowher]

I think this is a good time to go for a flop check-raise.

[JasonP530]

Thanks for your input westley. Normally my pair is higher, or the pot is raised and I have an idea of where my opponents are. The hand I was really worried about was JT, with overcards on the flop, and a gutshot on the turn. I wasnt really worried about an 8, or a Q, since I didnt get raised at any point. Folding the river to a bet and a call would be opponent(s) specific, but no matter who the opponents are, it is close at best, and is an easy fold a lot of times depending on the bettor(and how fast he bets).

Thanks again.
Jason