I improve on the turn, so what do I do?

[damaniac]

Live 5/10 at Greektown. First live game in months, so I'm rusty and continue to assume that people are calling me with any pair, even though it appears that isn't going to be the case with a lot of people here. Game is good, a few tags to my left, fish to my right. I have a fairly tight table image, although I caught some good hands early so I've been raising a fair amount.

Villain is superstitious enough not to sell me any white chips, but folded KJ on a Kxx board to two cold on the flop (which was good given that I was the PFR and the raiser was tight as well). I don't have a great read on his own aggression however. Other players are typical LP's as far as I know.

First 4 players limp, I limp in MP2 with 54 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], next three fold (Button!), blinds come along. 7 for 7.

Flop is A37, dos [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], no [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], double gutter for me.

Checked to villain who is on my immediate right and bets. I call, I think the BB and an EP limper call. 4 for 5.5.

Turn card is a 4, non- [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Checked to villain who bets. I should do what and why? Show work if possible.

[Carmine]

Raise. Any FD will call two cold as will most aces. If a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] hits on the river you won't be able to extract $$.

[damaniac]

Uh, well that's my debate: if someone has an A I'm behind, so do I have the equity/large enough pot to raise? If I know I'm behind? If I'm good vs. bettor x% of the time? That's my dilemma (I only have a pair of 4's on the turn).

[Carmine]

[ QUOTE ]
Uh, well that's my debate: if someone has an A I'm behind, so do I have the equity/large enough pot to raise? If I know I'm behind? If I'm good vs. bettor x% of the time? That's my dilemma (I only have a pair of 4's on the turn).

[/ QUOTE ]

My mistake. I thought you made the str8 on the turn and were trying to extract the most. Just call to hit your draw. You're not going to get the hand you want to fold to go away.

[Duffman]

I just call and check/fold the river UI.

I don't think your hand is good often enough for a raise to be +EV, and you're not getting any extra outs if people fold. You're getting the odds to draw, so folding is not an option.

I would have thrown the hand away on the Flop: no flush anymore, loosing against any ace (and other cards higher than mine) I do not wait for only a 6.

[damaniac]

Double gutter, a 2 gives me a straight as well. Otherwise with the two flush you may well be right, especially given me relative position and the chance of facing a check-raise.

[Redd]

IMO whatever the flop bettor was willing to continue betting into 4 people on the turn with is ahead of your crappy pair. And he's usually showing it down. I'd just call and c/f UI.

[damaniac]

Ok just checking. I don't think I semi-bluff enough (or buy outs or whatever) especially live and wanted to see if there was any merit to it. But my initial thought was correct which was if I'm never ahead here, there's probably no point in "buying outs" since I'd need quite a parlay to occur almost always to make doing so plus EV. Thanks

[Redd]

FWIW, I wouldn't really consider a raise to be a semibluff in a 4-way, moderately coordinated pot since you're rarely taking it down without a showdown.