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  #1  
Old 03-22-2005, 09:13 AM
jrz1972 jrz1972 is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 368
Default KQo flops middle pair vs. pf 3-bettor

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>

Now what? Raise the flop and go from there?
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  #2  
Old 03-22-2005, 11:04 AM
tiltaholic tiltaholic is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 7
Default Re: KQo flops middle pair vs. pf 3-bettor

hi-
my 2cents.
if villian is a complete unknown...i raise the flop and hope to take a free turn card. i think i fold to a 3-bet.
if villian tricky/good/aggressive i also raise the flop, take a free turn.
if villian is weak...i raise the flop and bet the turn.

but my headup play is REALLY bad, so here is a BIG GRAIN OF SALT:
salt
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  #3  
Old 03-22-2005, 11:14 AM
gopnik gopnik is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 25
Default Re: KQo flops middle pair vs. pf 3-bettor

I raise the flop, call 3-bet and if BB comes out betting on the turn, I fold the turn UI.
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  #4  
Old 03-22-2005, 11:21 AM
pointcount pointcount is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: swinging
Posts: 246
Default Re: KQo flops middle pair vs. pf 3-bettor

yuck..

well i'd be raising the flop and folding to a 3-bet checking behind if he calls and checks the turn. I'm no expert on HU play either but there is a strong chance you are reverse dominated or just beat. The only 3-bettable PF hands you beat here IMO are JJ, TT so I wouldn't even bother trying to improve

I'm sure there will be advocates for the call down to SD line though...
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  #5  
Old 03-22-2005, 11:34 AM
elbuddha elbuddha is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Running in circles.
Posts: 142
Default Re: KQo flops middle pair vs. pf 3-bettor

Is this a case where we aren't going to push off a better hand, but may push off a worse hand? Having not capped preflop, I don't think we can convince any preflop 3-betting hand we are behind to that they are beaten.

So I'm not sure raising the flop accomplishes anything useful unless it's to fold to a 3-bet.

I'm also not sure what a free card buys us except being bet into on the river again. Would we fold unimproved on the river, or is it just a cheaper way of getting to showdown? Or that we'd ever get a free card anyway.

With position we can call down and make sure a bet goes into every street. I see it as either fold now, or call down. But I'm guessing that's wrong and I'd like to know why.
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