Tournament theory question

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From a theory point of view I think you are asking:

"Is it possible to make a meaningful bet without committing all your chips in this situation?"

Raise to T8,000 is not meaningful as BB will be getting 3:1 to call any two.

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I agree with this viewpoint. When I am big-stacked at the final table, I am looking to knock players out, or at least prevent opponents from playing any drawing hands. I'm certainly not going to allow any kind of steal if I have any sort of hand.

If I'm getting 2:1 or better and have any kind of playable hand, then I'm very likely to put you to a decision for all of your marbles.

Then the question is up to you. What hands are you willing to play for the rest of your stack?

The situation that the original poster posed is a very unenviable situation to be in.

Off topic but I think it illustrates your scenario a bit:

In a tournament a while ago I had a tremendous run of cards early and got people to pay me off on almost every hand that I made. The net result was that my stack was in excess of 30K early in the tournament and every one else at my table had less than 2500.

I was in an rare opportunity to just play 900 pound gorilla and really push people around. Granted I was getting some playable cards like middle pairs, AK, AQ, etc. But anytime any one player or small group of players limped in or showed any weakness, I just pushed and put them to the ultimate decision.

It afforded me an opportunity to take down a large number of pots without even seeing a flop, and I'm certain in several cases that I was able to make a better hand fold.

More importantly, it allowed me to continue to increase my stack size, all the while knocking out and weakening the other players at the table.

Back to your original scenario, if you are on the bottom end of a situation like this, in many ways you are almost defenseless unless you are fortunate to draw a strong hand, have it hold up, and get paid off with it. And this would have to happen more than just once to start backing off a hyper-aggressive player. It really is a tough spot in which one can get frustrated and really thrown off their game.

About the only thing you can really do is bob and weave and counterpunch. If you catch a hand, let the opponent's hyper-aggressiveness work for you so that you can maximize your payoff if you win. Limp and re-raise. Check and raise. Extract the maximum payoff when you can and take your chances.

[M.B.E.]

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When I am big-stacked at the final table, I am looking to knock players out, or at least prevent opponents from playing any drawing hands. I'm certainly not going to allow any kind of steal if I have any sort of hand.

If I'm getting 2:1 or better and have any kind of playable hand, then I'm very likely to put you to a decision for all of your marbles.

Then the question is up to you. What hands are you willing to play for the rest of your stack?

The situation that the original poster posed is a very unenviable situation to be in.

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No -- if I have A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (for example), it's a good situation to be against a big-stacked player who will put me to a decision for all my chips with "any kind of playable hand", because A9 and 66 and KQs are favourites against that range.

[MLG]

Its an interesting question. Its a math question though right? The weighted percentages of the times you take down the blinds and the times you double up when you push vs the weighted percentage of the times you take down the blinds, and the times you double up when you raise and call the push. If we put some handranges together it seems like this is figure outable. I'm just lazy.

[Che]

Doesn't eastbay's program do all this math? Maybe someone from the STT forum would know...

Later,
Che

[A_PLUS]

Its so wierd when people take a pretty straight forward question like this and answer with some wierd BS quasi-theory with a lot of vague important sounding poker words.

Im going to do some work on this now, see what I come up with

[A_PLUS]

Yes, Eastbay's program will give you the %'s you need as well as the associated equity. Will still take a little leg work.

[intheflatfield]

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I always feel like I play so well at the final table that I don't want to bust out in a spot where I could have been at the final table with an average amount of chips. That felt very Helmuthian to write. I have to go vomit now.


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lmao

[barry111]

Well, what did you dome up with?

[DyessMan89]

A very good question. Would like to know what he comes up with.

[AliasMrJones]

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Doesn't eastbay's program do all this math? Maybe someone from the STT forum would know...

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Not exactly. It is set up for 3 paying places only. But, the theory and mechanics behind his program apply, you'd just have to do the math in a more manual way.