NL straight/flush drawing hand

Holybull · #1 10-09-2003, 05:18 PM

Please tell me how bad this is. $.25/.50 NL at Party. I have 18.50 to start.

I'm dealt Jc 8c in cutoff. 2 limpers, I raise to $1.00, BB calls, others call. 4 players in the hand for $1 each.

Flop comes Tc 9d 4c. I've flopped an open ender and a decent flush draw. BB checks, UTG bets $9, MP calls, I call, BB folds. Pot now at $31 less the rake.

Turn brings the Ah. UTG now checks, MP bets $10, I call all-in, UTG folds.

River misses me, it's the Ks. MP takes down a $46 pot with Ac 9s -two pair.

Is this just a bad beat, or should I not have been in this hand at all? All comments appreciated.

AeonBlues · #2 10-09-2003, 05:33 PM

J8s is an average starting hand, odds are more than likely that someone limping in has a better hand. So unless you're trying to impress people with your liberal raises, then folding j8s is your best option off the SB.

On the flop your a 62%, which meens it would be reasonable to bet all in, but on turn, you're only about 32%

Hardly a bad luck, not showing with that hand.

AeonBlues

sillyarms · #3 10-09-2003, 05:48 PM

I think you should of folded pre-flop, but since you called.

On the flop UTG bets $9 into a $4 pot and MP calls making it a $9 call to win $22 and you're holding $17.5. When UTG bets this much it makes it seems like he's protecting a venuarable hand. I'd say your best play is to re-raise all in on the flop. The pot is big enough in comparision to your stack and you don't want to be left in a tough spot on the turn so grit your teeth re-raise all in and chuck it up to EV+ if you don't catch.

silly

nicky g · #4 10-09-2003, 05:51 PM

I don't understand why you would raise with jc8c?

On the flop, move all-in. You have a massive hand, and it's probably favourite against a single opponent with something like top pair (or in this case, second pair), and your opponent might fold, giving you massive equity. The more people you let in however, the less likely all your outs are good, and obviously if you don't raise not everyone is going to fold.

tewall · #5 10-09-2003, 06:10 PM

Pre-flop I'd say: 1) fold 2) call 3) raise

On the flop it's a no-brainer all in. This is just about a perfect flop for you. If you have 15 outs, you're a slight favorite over a better hand. You almost certainly have more equity in the pot than anyone else. The biggest problem would be if you're unfortunate to be against opponents with a better flush and better straight draw, which is one of the pitfalls of playing J8 in the first place. JT, for example, is always drawing at the nut straight, so at least you'd be guaranteed to be drawing at one nut hand.

Ignatius · #6 10-09-2003, 08:35 PM

Even calling with J8s is borderline. By raising you're not only waste 50c, but also hurt your implied odds as it will double the pot size on the flop. On the flop, with $22 in the pot and only $17.5 left, move in as you're a favorite against top-pair and to deny the others a chance to get away from the hand in case you hit on turn.