Unique B&M Situation

[Gabe]

Very loose game. Fairly aggressive early, but only a few players doing the raising. A lot of callers.

UTG limps.

I have Kd Qd next and raise.

MP, LP, and Button cold. A blind calls. UTG calls one more.

Flop: As Td 8d.

UTG checks. I bet. MP1 calls. LP raises. Button calls. Blind and UTG fold. I reraise. MP calls. LP caps. Button calls.

Turn: Jd.

I check. MP checks. LP bets. Button calls. I raise. MP calls.

Now LP says: “I’ll go one more.” LP was a middle-aged guy. I’ve been playing very tight. I start to suspect he may have capped the flop with a pair of A’s and the nut flush draw. (There’s even a straight flush possible.)

I then notice the Button doesn’t know what to do. The dealer isn’t sure. The LP has only put in 16 chips. To reraise he needs to put in 24. He either meant to reraise, and only put in enough to call, or he meant: “I’ll call one more.” The dealer calls the floorman. (I think that it will bet ruled a call, although “I’ll go one more” is usually a reraise, it is ambiguous. Probably “raise” “call” and “fold” are the only binding verbal declarations.)

Is there anything I can do to figure out what LP meant? (I was going to proceed as though he meant to call, until I get more information.)

Is there a trick question I could ask or something?

[highlife]

if he meant to raise...wouldn't he be insistantly declaring this after the floor decided it was just a call?

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
Now LP says: “I’ll go one more.”

[/ QUOTE ]

To ambiguous in my opinion. It could mean he's calling one more bet or reraising one more time. If he only put enough chips in front to call, it should stand as such.

BTW, I would lead the turn.

Garland

[Prof. Booty]

[ QUOTE ]
Very loose game. Fairly aggressive early, but only a few players doing the raising. A lot of callers.

UTG limps.

I have Kd Qd next and raise.

MP, LP, and Button cold. A blind calls. UTG calls one more.

Flop: As Td 8d.

UTG checks. I bet. MP1 calls. LP raises. Button calls. Blind and UTG fold. I reraise. MP calls. LP caps. Button calls.

Turn: Jd.

I check. MP checks. LP bets. Button calls. I raise. MP calls.

Now LP says: “I’ll go one more.” LP was a middle-aged guy. I’ve been playing very tight. I start to suspect he may have capped the flop with a pair of A’s and the nut flush draw. (There’s even a straight flush possible.)

I then notice the Button doesn’t know what to do. The dealer isn’t sure. The LP has only put in 16 chips. To reraise he needs to put in 24. He either meant to reraise, and only put in enough to call, or he meant: “I’ll call one more.” The dealer calls the floorman. (I think that it will bet ruled a call, although “I’ll go one more” is usually a reraise, it is ambiguous. Probably “raise” “call” and “fold” are the only binding verbal declarations.)

Is there anything I can do to figure out what LP meant? (I was going to proceed as though he meant to call, until I get more information.)

Is there a trick question I could ask or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's funny, because when I read what you wrote, I immediately thought he meant he'll see one more card (the river)...especially given your read (seems like he knew you had the flush but wanted to see if he could fill up or hit the nut flush on the river). Given that he didn't complain when they made him call (as another poster said), seems like that was his most likely intention.

[andyfox]

And I read it just the opposite: by going one more, I thought he meant raise again.

[andyfox]

Why was the floorman called over? What exactly happened after the guy said "I'll go one more" and only had enough chips in to call? Did the dealer ask the guy if he meant to raise?

[Franchise (TTT)]

I don't get it, why do you need a trick question?

Ask him if he called or raised?

[Gabe]

It was the player who was to act after the player who said "I'll go one more" who wanted to know if it was a raise or not. The dealer did not ask. The gut wouldn't say. I thought the floorman would most likely rule it a call and presumed that the player who said it thought that is how the floorman would rule also. He kept pretty mum. I was also cognizant of the possible implications of the third player being interested so much if it was a raise.

[Diplomat]

It sounds like he wanted to re-raise. That said, at most places where I play, unless you put out close to the full amount to raise, or actually say "raise", it's just a call. Almost anything else allows for angling.

-Diplomat

[elysium]

hi gabe

interesting post. this is similar to the more common situation of having your heads-up opponent turn his hand up on the river, instead of calling your bet. for example; sometimes you will hit your draw on the river against your opponent's set. if you sudden reversr from first position and have played it like a draw, particularly when there is only one possible draw, some of the old timers will turn their cards face up and say, 'well ive got a set.', trying to avoid calling the last bet. your reaction is usually instantaneous, and they then can determine whether or not they've won the hand. this is very different from an opponent who occasionally will turn his cards face up and say, 'whata ya think?'. he's not cheating. the first opponent is because he is hoping that you scoop or fold before realizing that he didn't call your bet. additionally, there is nothing you can do about it because he has a right to turn his cards up like that, unless expressly forbidden by the house. and of course, he'll say that he wasn't hoping that you didn't notice that he didn't call, nor that his lack of indicating that his face up turn of his hole cards was to get a reaction from you, rather than avoidance of having to make a nasty call by not saying, 'whata ya think?'. when your opponent notifies you that he is turning his cards up for a reaction, that's o.k., because in so doing, he also necessarily notifies you that he did not put the call into the pot just yet; something that can be over-looked as you gleen the face up bottom line results from his face up hole cards, and are momentarily distracted by finding out whether or not you scoop.

he uses the distraction of the showdown to avoid making the call.

he does so by not ushering into your cognition that he is doing anything thing more than simply showing down. this causes you to think that you didn't notice him also making the call. this is far, far different from the first example in which your opponent gives you the courteous and honset, 'whata ya think?'. that's fine. some cardrooms don't allow that however. the problem is that the latter type opponent uses this privledge to avoid making the call. and interestingly he does so by not advising you that he is turnoing his cards face up for a reaction.

have you been taken like this before, unaware that it has happened? yes you have. this is what you must do to avoid being cheated like this.

when your opponent turns his cards face up, and says 'well, i've got a set.', rather than, 'whata ya think?', even if you think that he may have called and that you just didn't notice it, you must immediately turn to the dealer and say, 'that's a fold!' those times you know you have won, or you must say, 'dealer, that's a call!', those times you know you have lost. you must do this. it is your only way to reverse what he is trying to do.

by the way, in the latter case, those times your opponent is cheating you, it is not easy to quickly decide exactly what to do. if you pause to think, he wins. when you're getting cheated, opposite. forget about everything else. cheated? hey dealer! opposite.

o.k. now in the first case, when he tells you that he's looking for a reaction, hey, that's great. this opponent is not cheating, or making a move on you. he's cool. however, we are 2+2'ers so of course we will take his money too. how? hey dealer! opposite. if you see you have won, 'hey dealer.' and raise your hand. 'that's a fold!'. if he shows you that you have lost, 'hey dealer!' raise your hand. 'that's a call!'. 'he called!'.

i just got through watching the karate kid. i'm sorry, i've got to do this; gabe winny. what gabe do?.....beddy gud danielsun.

'deela! he make rays!' on; 'deela! he no raise! off. lose on, win off. gabe winny? win off.