Defending with TJs

[TeeJayORTj]

I usually see the Donk bet as middle pair or some kind of draw. What really gets me is when they donk bet there two pair. I never see that coming.

[TheDelChop]

Couple of things cause this play really confuses me:

1) I know the guy seems a little laggy, with afsb of 40%, but in middle position, do you really think he is raising with a worse hand than J-10s that you want to play against out of position?

2) When you bet the turn, are you just value betting? It seems to me you would have to be pretty sure you have the best hand to bet again. Im not saying that I wouldn't do the same, just wanted to know what was going on in your head when you donked it.

[Kailia Marie]

Hi everybody,

I am shocked to see that checkraising the flop is such an overwhelming decision and how quickly people are to dismiss the OP's flop bet line. Checkraising is certainly a viable choice, but it does not neccessarily mean it is always the best one in these spots.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Kailia

[obsidian]

[ QUOTE ]
Couple of things cause this play really confuses me:

1) I know the guy seems a little laggy, with afsb of 40%, but in middle position, do you really think he is raising with a worse hand than J-10s that you want to play against out of position?

2) When you bet the turn, are you just value betting? It seems to me you would have to be pretty sure you have the best hand to bet again. Im not saying that I wouldn't do the same, just wanted to know what was going on in your head when you donked it.

[/ QUOTE ]
MP in this case is the CO so yes, TJs has plenty of equity to call here getting over 3:1. His raising range is extremely large here. When I bet the turn it is partially a value bet and partially not giving a free card to overcards, flush draw, or gutshot seeing how the K makes it less likely he has one now.

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally I c/r my big hands, my draws, and my occasional bluffs so it's hard to tell what I have.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very important balancing concept. So many players always slowplay their big hands heads-up, but if you play them strongly on the flop, then you get more fold equity out of your semi-bluffs and bluffs.

[oreogod]

Essentially the only time a checkraise is worse here is when he has a King. If thats the case bet/call is much better EV-wise than a CR would be. So if he has a King or AA, KK u are making the worse move possible by checkraising. But usually any time a decent aggressive player is raising here they have a pretty decent range of hands.

Example, here is a super quick range I did:

Board: Kh Jc 5c
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 45.2402 % [ 00.43 00.02 ] { AA-55, AKs-A5s, KQs-K8s, QJs-Q9s, JTs-J9s, T9s, 98s, AKo-A6o, KQo-K8o, QJo-QTo, JTo-J9o, T9o }
Hand 2: 54.7598 % [ 00.53 00.02 ] { JdTd }

So with a decent range its virtually a coinflip as long as u are not dominated and Villian does not hold a King. As a coinflip it would virtually not matter EVwise what happens on the flop....but what is important is how a CR here (if villian doesnt have a strong made hand) will effect Villains play on the big streets. Example, say u have a flush draw instead of a made hand, the situation is a coinflip if Villian has overs...in that situation if it even increases the percentage he folds overs to u by a small amount, the CR is totally worth it.

Add to the fact that it might be possible, even if it is slim, that a CR could get Villian to fold a better hand to your aggression. (I say slim because if u CR he could think u are fooling around with a draw)

Again, it depends. Check/calling is weak (but has the highest EV if u know Villian has a King), Bet/calling has qualities (and better than checkraising if Villian has a K), but in almost every situation, CRing has the highest EV and is usually the most profitable move to take.

[Entity]

I think the only street I really disagree with is the river call.

[oreogod]

Also if Im playing this Im CRing flop and leading all streets. If I get 3bet, Im calling down (hes not taking free cards, usually anyway.)

I'm learning, so forgive if this is common knowledge or dumb or w/e, just trying to learn [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

If this aggressive player is going to raise the flop alot when you bet into him, that gets 2 bets in there (assuming OP just calls the raise), which is the same as check-raising (assuming he'll call the check-raise w/ pretty much all worse hands), so can you actually explain why the C/R is a better EV play? Does it just make it a little more likely, based on how players play at this or any level, that villain would fold a better hand, such as QQ?? Or is it because he will bet pretty much always when checked to, whereas if you bet into him he may fold a small % of the time (small PP or something), so in this instance you get that extra SB? Thx in advance.