Bring it

[blumpkin22]

Party 20/40

I bring-in with the (A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Under the gun K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] limps in, 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] folds, the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] calls, the 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] fold, and the T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] come along as well. Five of us to fourth street for about 1.5SB.

4th street:
Hero: (4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
P1: (xx) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
P2: (xx) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
P3: (xx) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
P4: (xx) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

P2, P3, and P4 check it to me and I check along to P1 who bets, P2 calls, P3 and P4 fold, and I now raise. Both players call. Three of us to fifth for about 3.75BB.

5th street:
Hero: (4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
P1: (xx) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
P2: (xx) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

P2 checks to me, I bet, and both of them call. 6.75BB.

6th street:
Hero: (4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
P1: (xx) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
P2: (xx) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet the open dueces and both players call. 9.75BB.

On the river I make a wheel with the 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Sup?

Give me a line under all possible actions (that is, say (1) I bet, and it goes raise, then call, or say (2) I bet and it goes call then raise, or (3) I check and it goes bet, raise, etc.)

I would be checking with intension of calling.

check
bet
call and then you call

check
check
bet and then you call

check
bet
raise and then you are probably lost and then you can make a close fold.

but i wouldn't come out betting here because it looks like you got some possibles going on in their hands. in addition, by checking you give them the opportunity to try to bet or bluff through their weaker hands if that is what they have.

[Andy B]

By checking you also give them the opportunity to check behind with hands they would have paid off with.

[patrick dicaprio]

checking here is inviting disaster so lets ignore that. if i bet and get raised by either one i just flat call here hoping to get both to call. you dont want to raise anyone out here and if you get reraised you are in heap big trouble.

Pat

[grb137]

[ QUOTE ]

P2, P3, and P4 check it to me and I check along to P1 who bets, P2 calls, P3 and P4 fold, and I now raise. Both players call. Three of us to fifth for about 3.75BB.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a really bad time to CR. Your two opponents now have to put in 2 bets each, and each will feel that much more committed to their hands...make them much more willing to call 1 bet on 5th. The right play is to bet out, or smooth call and bet out on 5th.

[blumpkin22]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

P2, P3, and P4 check it to me and I check along to P1 who bets, P2 calls, P3 and P4 fold, and I now raise. Both players call. Three of us to fifth for about 3.75BB.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a really bad time to CR. Your two opponents now have to put in 2 bets each, and each will feel that much more committed to their hands...make them much more willing to call 1 bet on 5th. The right play is to bet out, or smooth call and bet out on 5th.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not going to totally disgree here, but...

My intention was to check/call, but then when it was going to be just three handed I couldn't resist raising. There was no reason to assume either of them had much of anything, although I figured P1 for a pair of kings or jacks, but P2 could really have anything there. It was quite possible that I had them both in really bad shape, and I'm missing a lot of value if I don't raise.

No one has any idea you have a hand here, and I'm not willing to give that information up so readily on 4th. If you had aces up at that point it would be different. If you do just call, and go on from 4th and make an open pair, many people will assume your other pair is 3's, and misplay the hand badly. Yes, getting an extra bet in on 4th with aces makes you a little extra in the hand, but I think you would do better in the long run by letting the hand develop. You may even get a check-raise or raise opportunity on 5th or 6th by waiting.

In my opinion, the river 5 doesn't change your hand much, unless someone has a set. In that case I think you'd have heard from them by now, or they back into a set on the river, again unlikely. Given the straight and flush possibilities out there, I'm inclined to check and call. If it is bet and raised back to me, unless you know both players are likely to go nuts on the river for some reason, it is an easy fold.

Checking also lets K's up bet if they want, and you can see if the third hand raises. If someone wants to argue for a bet on the river, I can see the point, but I don't think I'm getting called by one pair, and the odds seem higher that a draw in either hand gets there rather than just 2 pair.

[blumpkin22]

Very good points Howling.

I would still like to get a bet in on the river, and I'm not too confident that those guys will bet two pair. But I agree they both probably had draws if hit would beat my low straight, and they'll definitely raise those hands.

[goofball]

Heh, it took me reading every post in the hand and wondering what insane weak sauce I was reading to realize you aren't playing stud8.

I don't think you can check here either. Bet and decide if you get raised.

[Andy B]

Somehow, I got sidetracked last night. Bet the river. Why wouldn't you? Definitely call a raise. If it's raised and re-raised behind you, though, it's hard to imagine that your hand is good.