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#1
10-03-2005, 11:24 AM
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Live 20/40 w/ overs
Im trying to remember how this hand went down but the game was a great live game at the ameristar in st.louis,
we were playing 6 or 7 handed and everybody at the table had over buttons except Mark Wilson (who you pool fanatics will know is one of the best pool players, period. 5 time national 9 ball champion, 3 time national 8 ball). he doesn't have an over button. Mark is the absolute definition of weak tight. he'll check down an overpair on an even remotely scary board, he plays like 1 hand per hour, even in this game where me and my friend winston are the ones laggig it up. so im in the 6 seat. my friend winston is in the 7 seat. Winston is an aspiring poker player. he played at the commerce alot when he lived there. he would be good but when he's down he plays very bad, and he's a little lag. ive showed him my pokertracker database and compared it with him to help him try to beat the 30 game so he really respects my play. at this point the game is pretty tight and winston is doing well, he was down like 2 racks but got 90% of it back so he's doin ok. to his left is a guy who plays tight and has won "52 out of 56" of his last sessions...great, thats how you record a win, good for you [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ... to his left is a bad playing but tight preflop player... so only mark is un-overed. as its folded to me i look around and the sb, bb and mark dont look too excited. I have 74ss and raise, winston 3 bets all fold i call. flop is Kc9c2c. i check and call. at this point he looks slightly afraid of this flop and he would have bet more forcefully if he had a K or a club from the looks of it. i plan to c'r the turn and bet the river. turn is 7d i check and raise his bet. he looks disgusted, thinks a while and calls, river is 4. damn, i bet. my plan was to get him to fold, but now i want a CALL. what do you say to get the call after you played it strongly enough to get a fold? Barron 
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#2
10-03-2005, 11:30 AM
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Re: Live 20/40 w/ overs
[ QUOTE ]
what do you say to get the call after you played it strongly enough to get a fold? Barron [/ QUOTE ] How he perceives you and your mannerisms is key to figuring out what you need to do in order to get him to do what you want and what he doesn't want. Can you seem overly confident which would seem like a put-on job by a weak hand to get him to call...? Or seem weak in order to make THAT a reverse tell as a strong hand projecting weakness when you're actually weak (but he won't know that you're strong). Or go stone-cold frozen and seem like you're bluffing if that won't be too obvious. Or tell him to fold already so you can get to the next hand. Or call. Or... Barron Vangor Toth BarronVangorToth.com
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#4
10-03-2005, 12:31 PM
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Re: Live 20/40 w/ overs
[ QUOTE ]
what do you say to get the call after you played it strongly enough to get a fold? [/ QUOTE ] Nothing at all. Hold your breath and stare at the board. Not sure if he knows anything about tells but anytime I play live and someone looks like that after a weird turn raise I call them down and win.
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#5
10-03-2005, 12:38 PM
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Re: Live 20/40 w/ overs
I understand the reason for the move, but with nothing to fall back on in terms of your hand, isnt't this whole hand just spewage?
If you ended up getting a call it means he was calling to the river regardless, and the only way you had to win was catching runner runner, nice hit. lf
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#6
10-03-2005, 01:42 PM
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Mark Wilson . . .
Can shoot the eyes off the balls, but can't hold a candle to either DiLiberto or Incardona when it comes to commentating matches for Accu-stats. Wish he would hang it up.
TSP
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#7
10-03-2005, 03:08 PM
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Re: Mark Wilson . . .
[ QUOTE ]
Can shoot the eyes off the balls, but can't hold a candle to either DiLiberto or Incardona when it comes to commentating matches for Accu-stats. Wish he would hang it up. TSP [/ QUOTE ] he's a quiet guy and when he told me he was going to vegas to commentate i was actually pretty surprised... but he's a real nice guy and he's hosting a match tomorrow ... tim meyers and myself will be playing a 9 game 9ball match w/ 5:4 weight (my 400 wins me 500). we'll adjust the line after that for subsequent games. Barron
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#8
10-03-2005, 08:14 PM
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Re: Live 20/40 w/ overs
[ QUOTE ]
I understand the reason for the move, but with nothing to fall back on in terms of your hand, isnt't this whole hand just spewage? If you ended up getting a call it means he was calling to the river regardless, and the only way you had to win was catching runner runner, nice hit. lf [/ QUOTE ] good point
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#9
10-03-2005, 08:27 PM
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RESULTS
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I understand the reason for the move, but with nothing to fall back on in terms of your hand, isnt't this whole hand just spewage? If you ended up getting a call it means he was calling to the river regardless, and the only way you had to win was catching runner runner, nice hit. lf [/ QUOTE ] good point [/ QUOTE ] thats the whole point. i had a plan and a read. but in the end, i wanted something other than was the intent of my plan and read. how do i go about undoing it... so here's what i did, as i bet the river without flinching he was virtually beating me to the muck with his cards. i said "winston, you gunna fold it this one time for me? how sweet of you" then he took a second look, and i tried to portray that this was a reverse reverse tell that i wanted him to fold so he should call...like i had the Ac. he then hollywooded for a bit and i couldn't think of anything else that would pursuade him to call [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] so i put a chip on my cards and said, ok, i guess you'll be nice and did the ol turn in your cards thing. he then looked at his stack, looked at the cards in my hand and chucked his cards in the muck! damn! oh well, all i can say is that i tried...and he went from an instamuck, to a thoughtful muck...lol Barron
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#10
10-03-2005, 11:37 PM
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Re: RESULTS
[ QUOTE ]
as i bet the river without flinching he was virtually beating me to the muck with his cards. [/ QUOTE ] [Me as other player at the table]: "Sweet, next hand." [ QUOTE ] i said "winston, you gunna fold it this one time for me? how sweet of you" then he took a second look, and i tried to portray that this was a reverse reverse tell that i wanted him to fold so he should call...like i had the Ac. he then hollywooded for a bit and i couldn't think of anything else that would pursuade him to call [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] so i put a chip on my cards and said, ok, i guess you'll be nice and did the ol turn in your cards thing. he then looked at his stack, looked at the cards in my hand and chucked his cards in the muck! [/ QUOTE ] [Me as other player at table]: "Yes!, two WPT guys get to Hollywood back and forth over one limit poker bet, hopefully a staredown will ensue!"
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