How's Your Turn Play?

Paxosmotic · #1 10-25-2005, 10:09 PM

Let's see where we're at as a group when it comes to making decisions on the turn. Three hands that took place recently, with some particularly interesting turn situations. Take your time with these and think about the action that has taken part in the hand to this point, then tell me what the best action is and why. Assume all villains are strong TAGs whose only mistake is maybe slipping in a hand too many preflop or overestimating implied odds occasionally. Good players overall, though.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, SB folds.

Turn: (3 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero...

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, BB checks.

Flop: (4.5 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero...

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG+2 calls, Hero raises, CO calls, Button calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (9.5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, CO folds, Button folds, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img](2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 raises, Hero...

#2 10-25-2005, 10:21 PM

check, bet, reraise

MrWookie47 · #3 10-25-2005, 10:37 PM

In white no more!

1. Bet. I don't think he has a K. I think decent TAGs raise this flop with a decent K, and there aren't that many indecent K's that he might have here. Consequently, I think we take this down often enough compared to the times we're forced to pay too much to draw.

2. Check to induce a river bluff. There isn't much value in a bet, and I sure as hell don't want to be c/r'd and have to strongly consider folding.

3. I really want stats here to decide if I should 3bet or call down. I need more info to decide how often he has AJ- (non-two pair) versus how often he has A9, A7, A3, 99, 77, or 33. The tighter and more passive he is preflop, the more likely he is to have AJ and at the expense of 33, A3, and 77. It does increase the likelihood of 99. Crudely, if we put him on A8s, A7o/s, A9o/s, AJo, ATo, or 77 (assuming 99 and better A's would be raise preflop and worse A's would be folded either preflop or on the flop) that's 9+9+3=21 hands that beat us, 3+12+12=27 we beat, making this a 3bet. If you give him a larger PFR stat, though, then this quickly looks like a call down.

Edit (also in white no more):

Actually, I think giving him A7o is a little loose. I think a better estimate would be 9+3+3=15 hands that beat us. I may have also been overly generous with AJo and ATo on the other side. Giving them half credit turns this into a call down in spite of nixing A7o. With no stats given, I think that this is more reasonable. Calling down is better.

DMBFan23 · #4 10-25-2005, 10:39 PM

hand 1, I think check calling is best, at least in the very aggro 10/20 6max games I play in. no one folds a pair that they called the flop with often enough, and we're very liable to get raised. UTG+1 is not likely to have a K because he smooth called the flop when he is in a prime position to raise, but he could have a weak K because the pot is small - he doesn't necessarily need to raise here especially against other observant opponents. even if we know that, he has position and likely the best hand. I can't imagine the TAG peeling with many hands there that he's folding on the turn, so I'd rather he fear the checkraise and hook me up with the freebie.

hand 2 is an really easy check behind and river call. betting makes us the least when ahead, as he will probably fold any non diamond pair. also it loses us the most when behind, as even if our opponent calls us down with a bigger diamond, we lose 2 BB versus 1. if we were ahead on the turn, we will make back the 1BB we gained often enough on the river if he VB's with a smaller diamond, or bluffs. and again we save a bet versus a bigger diamond. no other way to play this one IMO.

hand 3 could be a fold, but I probably call it down like a fish. the limp and C/R of the A means a set or two pair with like A9s. also depending on how past hands have gone down, I'd consider checking the turn here

EDIT: "Paxosmotic: Why on earth did you post in white in the thread"

Paxosmotic · #5 10-25-2005, 10:43 PM

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] This is not a secret ballot. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

MrWookie47 · #6 10-25-2005, 10:48 PM

Eh, I'll make my post black after a few more people respond.

#7 10-25-2005, 10:48 PM

*grunch*
1. Checks (even though he's red), the likelyhood of this being checked through is high and you are ahead of nothing at the moment.
2. Bets. As last money in. Fold Equity is high HU.
3. Raise. Good UTG players at 10/20 don't limp with A9, A7, A3. I'd say pair+/orFD. If capped, I call down mildly afraid of 77,33.

EDIT: I didn't pay close enough attention to hand 1 to realise it's HU. In which case I bet.
Hand 2. I'm glad this hand was posted, as this is obviously a leak for me.

Blunderfull1 · #8 10-25-2005, 10:48 PM

Hand 1: I am betting as a semibluff. I want to be able to win this pot without having to make my flush.

Hand 2: I check the turn planning to call a bet on the river and bet if checked to. Either he hit and has me beat or I have him dominated. WA/WB situation.

Hand 3: I want to fold because I feel that Villan has just made 2 pair. Even if he hasnt, then he was slowplaying a set or flopped two pair. This could be weak-tight though. Only hand I was unsure about.

#9 10-25-2005, 10:51 PM

Hand 1: I dont know. I think most decent tags arent playing a hand less than KTs from here, and even that i think they are raising the flop. That said i dont know what to put him on. In game, i know i would bet/call, for fold equity against PPs and river bluff equity against flush and... straight [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] draws? (heh... nah)

although looking here im not sure its correct. if its at all possible to put him on a K then i think you wanna pay 1BB for the river not 2.

actually, nah ive convinced myself again. bet/call.

Hand 2: Check behind... standard. bet/call river

Hand 3: i put him on aces up but call down for pot size and hidden + likely K outs

Shillx · #10 10-25-2005, 10:52 PM

Bet, check, 3bet