AA on Hand 1 of Tournament

[betgo]

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did you see day1 of the WSOP 2003 where he got AA on the first 2 hands?

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How did Varkonyi misplay aces?

[freekobe]

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Taj Mahal $50 + $15 tournament (T5000 start, T25-T50 blinds). First hand. So, no reads. Hero knows no one at the table.

Hero is UTG with AA. Hero limps. Folded to CO who limps. Button raises to T200. Blinds fold. Hero calls, CO limper folds. Heads up to the flop, which is:

Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero checks, button bets T400. Hero calls. Turn:

6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero checks, button bets T500, Hero check-raises to T2500. Button thinks for a little bit and pushes all in.

Should Hero call? What do you think of the play on the rest of the hand? Thanks in advance.

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I can see why everyone thinks he didn't play his aces well, but....

What hands, realistically, could the button have here that hero is behind (QQ and JJ)? And given those hands, what could hero have done differently that would have bounced the button from this hand?

Let's analyze what the button did: raised 4x preflop. Then bet the pot on the flop. After getting called on the flop, button bet 1/2 the pot on the turn. The tricky part, obviously, is that button pushed all-in after getting check-raised. That shows tremendous strength.

To me, button's actions preflop eliminate a hand like A6 suited. Could be any pocket pair AA-88, though AA is obviously unlikely. Could also be AK-A10, maybe KQs. That's pretty much it.

The hands we are worried about are QQ and JJ. Would someone who hit top or middle set bet the pot on the flop on the first hand of a tournament? That seems highly unlikely. Perhaps that's a bad read. To me, AQ seems to be much more likely of a hand in this situation, given all the action. Then, on the turn, because it's a $50 tournament, the button could be a horrible player who thinks the board pairing meaningfully improves his hand on the turn.

FURTHERMORE: if the button did indeed have QQ or JJ, there is nothing Hero could have done differently. The button calls his re-raise preflop, and then he's done. Any other hand that the button holds, Hero is in tremendous shape.

To me, this seems like one of those situations where if a well-known player did this and was able to play his aces in such a disguised manner, we'd be lauding his play. Because the Hero is a nobody in the poker world, we all scoff at the play.

I just don't see why someone who hit his full house on the turn and likely has an unbeatable hand is so willing to push Hero out on the turn. Why not call the check-raise setting up the inevitable river all-in from Hero? Hero obviously loves his hand. Button extracts more value if he calls the turn with a monster, I think, but that's just my opinion.

And, for the record, I call and put him on AQ or KK, even though you wouldn't post this hand if that's what he had.

[chucksim]

This tournament is no rebuy.

[chucksim]

Freekobe, thanks for talking through your thought process. It's a lot of what I'm looking for (in seeing the thought process talked through). I'll post my thoughts and comments shortly.

[mts]

How didn't Varkonyi misplay aces?

[chucksim]

As I said, thanks for all the responses.

First off, the roles in this hand are exactly reversed. I was the guy on the button. I posted it backwards because I wanted to see what the consensus was in the forum as to the way the UTG player with aces played this hand. I didn't think it was good at all, and I was curious to see the thoughts/flames as to the way this hand was played, as there is NO WAY I would play aces this way. Personally, if I have AA, I'd have opened with a raise. If it chases them, it chases them. If raised behind me, not reraising is totally wrong here. At least I feel good about thinking that way.

Now, I am not a frequent NL tournament player (I play limit up to 5/10), so I'm really looking for some good guidance here. The stuff has been good so far.

Now to the part where you can all flame MY play!!! I did, in fact, have KK on the button against two limpers. If this guy did limp-reraise me PF, I feel I would have been able to get away from the hand.

In the end, he called my push, and I walked away after hand one.

So, what are your comments as to how I played it? Here's my thought process:

I think pre-flop is OK. I feel comfortable with my bet on the flop...T400 into a T525 pot. Maybe I should have bet T500, but I feel in either case, it is enough that when he calls, I know he's got something.

Now's where I am lost. In retrospect, I think the T500 bet on the turn into a T1325 pot was a huge mistake. Way too small if I really like my hand. Thinking back, I feel the better play would be to check behind and maybe pay off up to a T1000 bet on the river.

By betting so small, I think I backed myself into a corner. When he immediately CR'd me for another T2000, I had no idea if the small bet gave him the green light to steal it from me or if he had me crushed.

My feeling after the CR was that it was the most obvious raise or fold situation I had ever seen. I immediately thought of folding, fearing QQ or JJ. Then, as I thought, I figured if I did push, I at least put him to a decision in that I'd likely play QQ or JJ the same way. If he has AA, maybe he goes away, and with any luck he has overplayed AQ, AJ, QJ, etc. I thought the only thing he could call with was QQ or JJ, and if he had that, oh well.

In retrospect, though, he was pretty much pot committed anyway, so I don't think pushing had as much value as I thought it did while at the table.

So, what do you folks think about my thinking here? After being CR'd, do I just get away losing only T1100? Does he fold at all often enough to make pushing worth it?

[freekobe]

First of all, thank you for posting the hand that way. Made it much better. Avoided results-oriented thinking.

Second, I'd like to congratulate myself on a good read [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Third, on your play of the hand....everything that AA did on this hand smells like a monster. And everything AA did was pretty amateurish, in my opinion. Waiting for the turn check-raise there is pretty weak and should've given you great pause.

To me, on the turn, it's call or fold. My problem with re-raising all-in is that there's NO WAY he folds AA, and any hand you dominate (AQ, QJ), you want to call you. In other words, no hand that you're behind folds here. So, you can call and then possibly face an all-in decision on the river, or you can fold and live to fight another day.

While I don't think this is an easy fold, I'd try my best to throw KK away here. I don't know if I could, particularly becuase of the low buyin of the tournament and the general caliber of player (not a knock on you).

[ptmusic]

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Taj Mahal $50 + $15 tournament

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Yikes!
And here I was complaining about party raking rebuys and add-ons.....
That is just sick.

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Talk about sick - the daytime NL tourney at Hollywood Park is now $20 + a $10 fee!! The rake is 50% of the buy-in!

-ptmusic

[krabby5]

The same thing kind of happened to me 10 minutes into a tourney. I had KK on the button and there were 5 limpers before me...so I reraised huge...UTG limper calls!!

The rest fold...flop comes 9-Q-4..two spades...

bottom line...he limped with QQ...and I was walking out laughing (it was only $30)

apparently he wanted to get beat by A-8 offsuit

bad players win sometimes, too

[mj12]

With kk this would be the kind off board i'd hope for (ie low boardpair and overpair), the preflop rr makes a 6 unlikely. With the exact same betting i would guess at least 75% of the time you would win this hand due to the very small chance of a aa qq and jj and because the play of most onliners who would gladly call all in with aq and ak. i would have played this hand very much the same