STT basic strategy checklist

[lacky]

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That being said new players starting out are well-served by the guides and the basic rules.

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true, but I don't think it is mentioned enough around here that that is a beginer stratagy that should be moved away from as soon as the skill is developed. The super tight play early is almost gospel around here and is wrong if you play well. The first round the blinds are small and the stacks are deep. Thats the ideal game conditions for a good nl player to take advantage of lesser players mistakes. When the blinds are large compared to the stacks the game is ruduced much more to luck. If I can outplay the bad players for their chips while the tight players are sitting out I don't have to get lucky later, I've already doubled.

Steve

[Phil Van Sexton]

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hm.. so in position (button, co, co-1), limp in w/top 40%? then if checked/min bet to you on a two tone flop, bet pot?

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I'll only bet the pot if its less than $100. Otherwise, I'll bet maybe 60% of the pot, minimum 100. Pot=125...I bet 100. Pot=200...I bet 125.

If there is a min-bet ahead of me, I might bet a bit more since this usually comes from someone who caught a small piece of the flop. They are betting to see if there 3rd pair is good, and will fold if someone shows strength.

In a side game, I usually do bet the pot or close to it. In a tournament, the stacks are not as deep, so I want to keep the pot small even if I have top pair.

The turn is trickier. If they bet into me, I'm going to fold most of the time.

When they check and I'm against more than 1 opponent, I'm usually going to check behind. If I'm bluffing, it's unlikely I'm going to be able to get multiple people to fold, especially since they already called once and now the pot is getting big.

If I have something (like top pair), I'll often still check behind multiple opponents. I'm probably ahead, but don't want to build an enornmous pot that I can't get away from. By showing weakness by checking, this encourages hands worse than mine to bet on the river. Since the pot is not huge, I can call most 1/2 pot sized bets on the river.

If against 1 opponent on the turn and they check, I will check behind a lot, but not all the time. I will bet if I strongly suspect a draw or if I have a decent hand or if I have a decent stack. I'll often bet 50% more chips than I bet on the flop.

If checked to me on the river by 1 opponent, I'll often check behind. However, I'm not opposed to value betting a good hand if both of us can afford it and there are no obvious draws.

[schwza]

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I'd play even tigheter in the first few levels. Premium hands from first 3 or 4 positions, even AQs/AJs are questionable EP and folding isn't far from wrong if it is.
Axs I would only play behind several limpers in LP, the same for suited connectors.


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i think you're playing too tightly. most of the bad players who are splashing around with A6o (and there are a lot of them at the paradise 30+3) will lose their chips pretty quickly, so you've got to go get them with hands like AQs and 55 in EP. i would limp AJs utg as well. i agree that suited connectors and Axs are not playable until you're in MP or later with at least one limper in front.

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with a big stack, don't just coast into the money.
open up a bit more and lean in favorable situations. on the bubble you can really lean against those that are obviously trying to make it into the money. your goal should be to win.

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this is all true. and it's much easier to do if you've busted somebody early.

[dinero2433]

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With NL, it's similiar. There's just not much "play" in these SNGs. Instead, play a couple 1000 hands at the 25NL 6max tables as practice, and you'll gain experience that would've taken forever in SnGs.

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That's not entirely accurate - a no-limit cash game is very different from a single table tournament. If your cash game play mirrors your tournament play, then you are playing at least one of the two types of games very wrong. In a cash game, you should be willing to exploit small advantages much more often than you would in a tournament. Sklansky's article in the current 2+2 internet magazine and his book on tournaments offer advice on this same topic.

As for the other arguments posted in this thread, there is some merit to many of them:

1.) It is undesirable to be busted out of the tournament early pushing a small advantage, even with AK (see Tom McEvoy's "Tournament Poker" for discussion on playing AK early in a tournament). In the case of AK, you are a slight dog against any pocket pair, about even money against suited connectors, and at best a 3/1 favorite against random cards (3/1 in the case that your opponent shares a weaker ace or king). Don't get me wrong: AK is a great hand to have, especially late in a tournament, but it isn't worth risking your stack over early in a tournament.

2.) It is advantageous to build a stack early in a single table tournament if it is possible at a low risk. Every extra bit of the table's resources is helpful as play progresses - it allows you more flexibility on when to play.

3.) Exploiting your table image is important in all poker games, but in a tournament, I think it is generally better to be perceived as (and largely be) a tight-aggressive player. This gives you the street cred necessary to steal a blind or two when it really counts. I'll probably only bet hard with a marginal hand about 5-10% of the time - but that 5-10% of the time is critically important to my success, especially late in the tournament.

Good thread here, nice to read these thoughts from fellow tournament players.

[Phil Van Sexton]

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If your cash game play mirrors your tournament play, then you are playing at least one of the two types of games very wrong. In a cash game, you should be willing to exploit small advantages much more often than you would in a tournament.

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Good point. My intention wasn't to tell people to play side games and tournaments the same way. Maybe this was unclear.

I see a lot of advice telling players to adjust their play in tournaments (ie avoid close gambles for all your chips). However, many players don't know how to play NL in the first place, so advising them to adjust their play for tournaments is pointless and/or dangerous.

If you want to learn how to play NL, the quickest way is to play in the 6max side games. Once you've done this, adjusting to tournaments is relatively easy.

[valentine]

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When they check and I'm against more than 1 opponent, I'm usually going to check behind.


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I feel your check-a-lot-on-turn strategy can often reduce the pot you win. A lot of player would more gladly call your bet on the turn , because they want to see the river. If you bet only on the river then these people will fold there if the river misses them, and you will win less.
So the basic strategies "don't give free cards" and "collect the money on the turn" should not be completely thrown away.

[stlip]

Here's a variation I use on the super tight early vs. limp question.

One of the first reads I take at the table (10+1 Party SNGs) is who doesn't play at all in the first four or five or even 10 hands. They are the ones I watch closely when they do start to fire up the agression and whose bets I respond to with the deepest suspicion and utmost care.

Conversely, I will usually look for the right cards or position in the first half dozen hands so I can limp. That satisfies my desire to see if I can get lucky and get off to an early stack lead. What I also like is that it gives whoever the most dangerous players are a completely wrong read on me as I settle quickly back into ultimate tight mode for the rest of the opening levels. The speed of the tournaments being what they are it is often not until a critical hand in the middle or late stages of the tournament before they get a chance to find out what my true standards are for opening hands and making aggressive raises.

[eMarkM]

Phil has made many good points here, re opening up your early game and learning to outplay your opponents. I, too, have played the super-tight mode in early going and while my ITM% was very good, I was getting way too many 3rds and not enough 1st place finishes and my ROI was not as good as it could have been. I simply was not accumulating enough chips early on to get an effective stack once it got 3-4 handed. I've opened up my game some now and the improvement in results has been dramatic.

You need some chips for the 50/100 level to make effective steals and have good FE. For Party SNGs I aim to get at least 1500 by the 50/100 level. I don't want to be in fold or push mode at that time. That's usually not going to be accomplished limping with Jacks and tossing lesser pocket pairs away. You need to get involved in small pots that you can steal with a flop bet and others where you get a big hand and double through. Phil has done a good job explaining how it's done. If I can double in the first three rounds I am virtually assured of getting to the final 4 bubble. As Phil said, you don't need to get wild and play every hand to get a good early stack. It only takes a key one or two.

Sometimes that means limping UTG with 33, risking a raise behind to flop a set that doubles you through or playing 75s on the button and stealing on the flop when it's checked to you. Throw in that semi-bluff raise when you think your oppoenent is just making a continuation bet. All these little things that I would never do when I played the rock can add up to having that stack that's not in push or fold mode once the blinds get up to that point where the rocks open up their game. If you fail the first few times and your stack is knocked down, you can retreat into the premium hands only mode until you're forced to push or fold.

Actually, some of the easiest players to outplay are the ones who follow the super-tight advice too closely and who are otherwise good players. You almost always know exactly where you're at with these folding-machines. These guys just don't risk chips in the early going without the best of it. If they miss, they will fold to a bet and if they raise they usually have you beat.

[stillnotking]

It's interesting to me that almost all the responses so far have focused on "what cards should I play", when cards are, at most, 1/3 of the SNG equation. The way to outplay your opponents in a SNG is by understanding stacks/blinds and position.

[Phil Van Sexton]

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I feel your check-a-lot-on-turn strategy can often reduce the pot you win. A lot of player would more gladly call your bet on the turn , because they want to see the river. If you bet only on the river then these people will fold there if the river misses them, and you will win less.
So the basic strategies "don't give free cards" and "collect the money on the turn" should not be completely thrown away.

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This is all true. In a deep side game, checking the turn with a good hand is usually wrong.

However, my goal early in a tournament is to win small/medium pots without risking my whole stack. The best way to do this is to keep the pot small relative to the stack sizes.

Yes, if they are on a draw, I will win less with this strategy. I tried to price out draws on the flop, but if they come along, oh well. I'm willing to give this up in order to reduce the risk to my stack.

However, I will win more if they have a medium hand like 2nd pair if they bet into me on the river. I also see a lot of river bluffs. Alternatively, I will also lose less if they are slowplaying a monster.

I definately don't want to say that this strategy is best for everyone against all opponents. For my game, I feel like it works well.