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#11
12-10-2005, 04:45 PM
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Re: Flopping Nut Flush
[ QUOTE ]
This is from a 2/4 live game. Early friday night. Table was very loose-passive preflop (after 1 hour I was the only player to have ever put in a PF raise.) I am in BB. K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 Limp, SB Completes, I check: Pot: 7 small bets Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Checks to Cutoff who bets, Button calls, SB calls, I call, everyone else folds. Pot: 4.5 big bets (after rake) Turn: A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] SB bets. Do I call or raise? Button was already gripping his hand to toss in the muck. Cuttoff is one of those annoying talker types whose likes to show off hi scarey knowledge of the game but won't take those killer skillz to a higher limit... My read was SB had also flopped a flush and Cuttoff either had set, two pair, or lone heart. He would almost always limp with small PP and Ax (suited or not.) [/ QUOTE ] Bet and raise everytime it's your turn. If you bet the flop, they will think you have A-x. The fact that you bet the flop means to them you do not have a flush, because, if they flopped a flush, they would incorrectly slowplay. 
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#13
12-12-2005, 09:56 AM
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Results & Analysis
This is my line & hand results from the turn on:
Pot is 5.5 BBs to me. SB bet into me, so I was pretty sure he had a flush (as I said, most of the table was loose-passive PF and passive post-flop.) CO was the chatty kind of player that talks about every hand. The “See how smart I am” type, but not smart enough to know that at a 2/4 table you don’t want the other players to think you know ANYTHING about the game. I put him on set, 2 pair, or lone heart, in order of probability. My thought he would have checked either the lone heart or 2-pair to get a free card, so I was going with a set of 6s (he would have raised AAs or QQs preflop.) Set – 10 outs (4:1) to beat me (3 As, 3 Qs, 3 5s, 1 6) 2 Pair – 4 outs (11:1) to beat me. 1 Heart – Drawing dead. If I called, he would be getting 6.5:1 plus implied odds (I am calling the river even if the board pairs), so he would be correct to call with the set. 2 pair and 1 Heart would be incorrect to call. If I raised, he would be getting 3.75:1 plus implied odds, making his call with a set marginal/correct. The pot wasn’t huge, but with 5.5 BBs, plus at least one more BB coming on the River, I wasn’t going to give CO chance to correctly draw out on me. With a chance CO would call anyways, I raised. CO folded. SB called. Next card was a blank. SB checked, I bet, SB called and showed: 7H 3H. CO looked at my cards and said “I can’t believe you played the nut flush so aggressively. I had two pair. You could have taken me for $10 more dollars if you didn’t raise. Thanks for making that bad bet.” I gave my standard response when getting criticized for winning a pot “Sorry, I’ll try to play better next time.” I wanted to go back over this hand to make sure I didn’t miss an opportunity. Suppose I had just called, CO would have called, so I would have gotten the same 2 bets as I did by raising. On the River, SB would have checked, I would bet, and I can’t see CO calling if he didn’t improve unless he was a total idiot. SB of course would call, so I am still getting the same # of bets on that round (maybe one extra if CO called.) For an extra bet, I didn’t want CO to draw out on me. I still like my raise on the Turn given the previous action. Looking at the hand from the beginning: - I didn’t raise preflop as KJs which was most likely a mistake. Sklansky has KJs at the bottom range of raising hands from the BB. I don’t like to raise on marginal raising hands in EP, but that is something I may need to readdress into to improve my game. - I didn’t CR the flop for a couple of reasons. I thought doing so would kill any action I would get on the turn, especially from people with a low single heart. If I had CR the flop, I am sure the SB would not have bet into me on the Turn. I was also hoping the two players between me and the CO (the flop better) would call 1 bet but not two. If I had to play this over, I would have CR’ed or bet out. Also, when CO bet I was pretty sure he had a set. The chapter from Skalnsky’s HPFAP on waiting to raise (so you don’t make the pot so big that calls are correct) was fresh in my mind. I may have been poorly applying a good concept, but my reasoning at the time was if I CR’ed the flop and added 4 more small bets to the pot. On the Turn, SB would have checked, I bet, and CO would have gotten proper odds to call. Any additional thoughts not only on my play but on my after-hand analysis?
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#15
12-12-2005, 10:26 AM
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Re: Flopping Nut Flush
P: Raise, F: Bet, T: Raise.
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#16
12-12-2005, 10:36 AM
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Re: Results & Analysis
[ QUOTE ]
Looking at the hand from the beginning: - I didn’t raise preflop as KJs which was most likely a mistake. Sklansky has KJs at the bottom range of raising hands from the BB. I don’t like to raise on marginal raising hands in EP, but that is something I may need to readdress into to improve my game. [/ QUOTE ] Sklansky doesn't put marginal raising hands into his lists. If the table were nasty-tight-aggressive... sure drop the lower ranges to limps if it seems appropriate and you don't care to stomach the variance. One thing to consider is that raising PF actually disguises your flop strength here. Most PF raising hands pretty much have to bet here and most of those don't have a heart redraw so even the little hearts can find a reason to peel. Again, the 4th heart (if it comes) is going to completely kill your action, because the highest heart anyone else can hold is the T and they aren't going to feel real confident about it. The guy with the set should go nuts on the flop anyway pumping the pot for value.
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