Are atheists better poker players than theists?

[imported_luckyme]

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Phil Hellmuth once said he can "look into his opponent's eyes and see into his soul"

PH obviously believes in an immortal soul and presumably a God who created it.

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I know adamant atheists who make comments like that all the time. I have no idea how PH uses it but these boys mean "I understand him below his conscious level, I can read him at an emotional level." No theist implications at all. Not unlike when an atheist physicist talks about "god does not play dice", or "reading the mind of god"..it's just using the popular expression.

Even if PH is refering to some part of a person existing beyond this realm, there is no reason to think he means it's immortal or that it was created by a god ( although he well might).

If your interpretation is "obvious" from his useage... I'll have to start watching what I'm saying, g-damn it.

On a sidenote, I find it interesting how deductive thinkers believe an exception to an inductive 'majority of' conclusion disproves the conclusion. When I was younger, it would amaze me, now I essentially expect it. It's seems you are mocking the argument perhaps partly tongue-in-cheek but that still requires believing that others think this 'could be' a valid counter to the claim.

luckyme,
if I thought I was wrong, I'd change my mind

The theist: Believes that <font color="red">God</font> is looking out for him, and his supposed long-shot will come through <font color="red">after death</font>.

The fish: Believes that <font color="red">Lady Luck</font> is looking out for him, and his supposed long-shot will come through <font color="red">on the river</font>.

Judge for yourself.

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"People who truly believe in the specifics of particular religions are much less likely to be good poker players given the importance of objective evidence evaluation that poker requires."

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This seems to me, to be pretty much the same as my statement that people with faith in God, the Bible, their pastor, ouija boards, etc, are much more apt to make irrational decisions. Yet, you seemed to have chided me by saying it's not about faith. "People who believe in the specifics of a religion..." sounds like faith to me.

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Phil Hellmuth once said he can "look into his opponent's eyes and see into his soul"

PH obviously believes in an immortal soul and presumably a God who created it.

PH is thus a theist. Since PH is one of the best poker players in the world, we can necessarily deduce that theists outperform atheists at the poker table.

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If I didn't know you were a Christian, I'd think you were being sarcastic in this post. But, since you are a Christian... I'm not sure what to think. I guess this goes back to objectively weighing evidence like DS said...

[jt1]

Bocalbkr, Sklansky, and luckyme make the most sense, here. Creationists can ignore facts to better focus on what they are confortable with. That is a recipe for failing to improve past a certain level. Atheists are fortunate not to have this deficit. However, as luckyme said, if a Creationists has certain intangible skills like discipline and perception then his other deficits can be compensated for.

Similarly, tall people will always be better at basketball but if a short guy is incredibly quick.....Another example, since readers tend to be type B people who admire the romantic or exotic, type B romantics will always have an advantage in writing, but a type A person is likely to be more prolific and thorough.....

[IronUnkind]

I concede that the point you make here is probably true. The implications of your statement, though, are either too facile (and therefore flawed) or too subtle (and therefore easily misunderstood).

It is the second of these possibilities which I would like to address. Another respondant to this post (KipBond) seems like a smart enough fellow, but his comment suggests a profound misunderstanding of the point you are trying to make. You ought to clarify these things, lest you unwittingly invite the unjust criticism of dumb believers and provoke the unjust vitriol of the dumb unbelievers.

Poker ain't rocket science, not matter how much the WPT producers or book publishers hype it.

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...amazed at the number of atheists on this forum.

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I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that they're mostly young white male internet junkies. Not too many believers among that group.

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I believe it is due in part to the fact that in order to be a good poker player you need to be mathematical, logical and analytical. I also believe those traits are more common among atheists than theists.

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Nonsense. To be a good poker player at all but the highest levels you need common sense and emotional control. If you have those two traits, a slightly above average intelligence is plenty of horsepower for poker. Hell, it's plenty of horsepower to write the book on poker.

I see no evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that atheists are better players than theists. Using these forums as any kind of test is just selection bias and is poor science. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

To answer your question, I am an atheist and a winning player at small stakes (used to post as OOO before I got banned from OOT)

[David Sklansky]

"This seems to me, to be pretty much the same as my statement that people with faith in God, the Bible, their pastor, ouija boards, etc, are much more apt to make irrational decisions. Yet, you seemed to have chided me by saying it's not about faith. "People who believe in the specifics of a religion..." sounds like faith to me."

No one has faith in ouija boards. Not by the definition I was using. And most people believe that their brand of religion makes a lot of sense. These are the people who tend to make worse poker players.

[David Sklansky]

"Nonsense. To be a good poker player at all but the highest levels you need common sense and emotional control. If you have those two traits, a slightly above average intelligence is plenty of horsepower for poker. Hell, it's plenty of horsepower to write the book on poker.

I see no evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that atheists are better players than theists. Using these forums as any kind of test is just selection bias and is poor science."

Would you say the same for bridge or backgammon? And does the highest levels include 30-60? And I see plenty of evidence outside these forums.

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"This seems to me, to be pretty much the same as my statement that people with faith in God, the Bible, their pastor, ouija boards, etc, are much more apt to make irrational decisions. Yet, you seemed to have chided me by saying it's not about faith. "People who believe in the specifics of a religion..." sounds like faith to me."

No one has faith in ouija boards. Not by the definition I was using. And most people believe that their brand of religion makes a lot of sense. These are the people who tend to make worse poker players.

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People have faith in ouija boards, by the definition I was using: "Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence." What definition of faith are you using?