Folded winner in 25bb pot for 1 bet. Correct or not?

[gaming_mouse]

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Sorry for the jump in on this one, since I am the resident n00b, but *why* is raising the flop bad here?

Ray

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You flopped a monster and there is no need to protect it: only two cards can hurt you. Your only concern is to maximize your winnings. Even if the players are loose, your flop raise will fold alot of them on this scary board. Let them make their second best hands and pay you off.

I thought about scaring them off, but the hand didn't really look like they were scaring off any time soon, and his description was that they were all donkified. I guess I like the raise because I think it WON'T scare them off, but not being in the hand, its easy to think my read may be off..

Ray

[scotty34]

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Sorry for the jump in on this one, since I am the resident n00b, but *why* is raising the flop bad here?

Ray

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You flopped a monster and there is no need to protect it: only two cards can hurt you. Your only concern is to maximize your winnings. Even if the players are loose, your flop raise will fold alot of them on this scary board. Let them make their second best hands and pay you off.

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In a pot this size and a board like this, I think most hands that are going to call one bet will probably call two.

[PennDisc]

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In a pot this size and a board like this, I think most hands that are going to call one bet will probably call two.

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Sure they'll call 2, but they won't raise for you on the turn if you come out raising on the flop (the guy hitting his flush notwithstanding). This way you get an extra big bet out of the whole field on the turn rather than on the flop. Plus, if the T hits the turn, you get out cheap.

[limitholdemshark]

all of ur troubles started preflop!!!RAISE!!!or fold.dont just call.Small pairs play best with one or 2 opps.raise to thin the field.if the bb 3bets u call.if its 3 handed with utg,u and the bb THEN bet out 2 protect ur hand(hoping bb raises utg out of the pot.ram and jam ur hand ur opp.wont Put u on a full house untill its to late.Y?bcause if u r very aggresive all the time ur opp.will think ur just trying 2 push them off thier hand and they will maybe push back at u.the name of this game is "AGGRESION WINS THE MONEY"

[baronzeus]

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all of ur troubles started preflop!!!RAISE!!!or fold.dont just call.Small pairs play best with one or 2 opps.raise to thin the field.if the bb 3bets u call.if its 3 handed with utg,u and the bb THEN bet out 2 protect ur hand(hoping bb raises utg out of the pot.ram and jam ur hand ur opp.wont Put u on a full house untill its to late.Y?bcause if u r very aggresive all the time ur opp.will think ur just trying 2 push them off thier hand and they will maybe push back at u.the name of this game is "AGGRESION WINS THE MONEY"

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lol sweet

[scotty34]

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In a pot this size and a board like this, I think most hands that are going to call one bet will probably call two.

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Sure they'll call 2, but they won't raise for you on the turn if you come out raising on the flop (the guy hitting his flush notwithstanding). This way you get an extra big bet out of the whole field on the turn rather than on the flop. Plus, if the T hits the turn, you get out cheap.

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This makes no sense at all to me [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[purnell]

I do not open-limp in this spot with 33. I raise the flop. I do not make big laydowns when a "donkey" raises the river. meh. Fold that crap pf.

[pheasant tail (no 18)]

I think, given the lineup, you win this much more than 1 in 20. Call the river.

On the flop, I think it is close. I like the raise more for value than protection. Capping if 3-better has position on you, smoothcalling if you have position on 3-better. It is likely that you'll get paid by lots of hands in this pot. Of course, had you known that river better was insane and would spew 5 BBs w/o a chance to pick up the pot, you'd have just called that flop like you did since that idiot gave this hand more value.

I'm trying to figure out if the river raise was a brilliant play or the dumbest value raise I have ever seen. As Nigel says in Spinal Tap, "they is a fine line between cleva and stupid"

Tough hand, you were 90% right in your read, unfortunately, you needed to be >94%. The poker literature teaches us how to figure out Expectation. In doing so, we learn that usually each play does not gain us one or 2 bets, but really it is more like some fraction of a bet based on equity. It is very sober language. Yet when it comes to making folds on the river it jumps out and uses language like "Catastrophic". The truth is, assuming that your read is 95%, by calling you loose 1 bet 19 times and win 24 bets once for a net loss of .25 bbs EV for each time you play this hand incorrectly based on that read. Hardly a catastrophy.

Try not to piss off another 30 BBs w/ weak river calls when your gut tells you to fold, but remember how correct you need to be in a gigantic pot.

PT

[obsidian]

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all of ur troubles started preflop!!!RAISE!!!or fold.dont just call.Small pairs play best with one or 2 opps.raise to thin the field.if the bb 3bets u call.if its 3 handed with utg,u and the bb THEN bet out 2 protect ur hand(hoping bb raises utg out of the pot.ram and jam ur hand ur opp.wont Put u on a full house untill its to late.Y?bcause if u r very aggresive all the time ur opp.will think ur just trying 2 push them off thier hand and they will maybe push back at u.the name of this game is "AGGRESION WINS THE MONEY"

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I would much rather play a small PP in a large multiway pot than a little one where I put more money in. I think the river is a tough call. I know I would probably fold it at times. Although with a pot this big some times I just call out of frustration. Anyways, is the SB the worst poker player of all time or what?