77 flop decision

[Your Mom]

I just don't think that one of your opponenets is laying down QQ or JJ here.

[tpir90036]

I like and undertand your thinking and the pot is certainly big enough that investing an extra SB can not be that big of a mistake...I just read his range as being a little smaller given the information. Hope it worked out for you...

tpir

[lil']

[ QUOTE ]
he could have AQs, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, some other pairs sometimes, some other A hands sometimes, rarely on the other ones, but not so rare as to say they dont count. the other guy can have all sorts of hands. my raise w/ the 77 is mostly an attempt to get sb to lay down some big pairs that beat mine and make AQs pay. if he has QQ or JJ the presence of the other player in the pot might falsely convince sb i cant be bluffing or making a play. so all i have to do is convince him i hold AK or KQ, or even some other hand with a K. it's not a play i like to try often, it takes exactly a good enough player, a player who prides himself in being able to read hands and stay detached and make the right play without thinking "i damn well capped this preflop, im seeing a damn showdown!" like most players do.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't care for the play until I read your last post, and then I changed my mind. Because I play primarily online, I am used to people never folding. However, in a live game, your play could work in this spot.

[mike l.]

the guy did fold QQ face up on the turn after i bet again (brick came). other guy called me with AQ the whole way and my hand was good. but i wanted to talk about it anyway.

[lil feller]

[ QUOTE ]
the guy did fold QQ face up on the turn after i bet again (brick came). other guy called me with AQ the whole way and my hand was good. but i wanted to talk about it anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

No "decent" player makes that fold face up. Nice hand Mike.

lf

[DpR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the guy did fold QQ face up on the turn after i bet again (brick came). other guy called me with AQ the whole way and my hand was good. but i wanted to talk about it anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

No "decent" player makes that fold face up. Nice hand Mike.

lf

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I would have put a very low chance on him folding QQ here. This is just a different game than I am used to playing.....

[amulet]

bear, you think i will get a reaction to "over time playing when you are behind costs you money"? lol, ok.

[skp]

The effectivenmess of your raise is embedded in the preamble of your post. If you are prone to raising a lot in this spot, I would say fold. If you are prone to folding or calling a lot in this spot, I would say raise (or call now and raise later although that gets expensive if your opponent has AK or better).

So, bottom line for me in this spot is usually call (given 15:1) and sometimes raise. If you do raise, it goes without saying that you keep your foot on the gas on the turn and possibly the river assuming that opponents offer no reraises.

[bunky9590]

I wanna be like Mike. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[esspo]

[ QUOTE ]
"clear fold."

let's start over. is sb going to bet the flop no matter what? yes. is fish on my right going to raise with most pieces of that flop? yes. is the pot getting big and i act last on all rounds? yes.

"clear fold" still?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with the fish part. I don't agree with the bet any flop part. Plus I think you are leaving out the "won't SB fold a better hand often enough" part, which I'm not sure about given your description that SB thinks you play decent. I think SKP nails it with his analysis becuase if you are folding alot in that spot you increase the likelihood that SB will fold a better hand often enough to make the play worthwhile.