This board makes me laugh (a reality check)

[zipo]

>>The terrorists have that determination and so should we as far as making temporary exceptions regarding some personal liberties<<

The problem here is the 'slippery slope'.

The Executive already has the power to use the NSA for domestic spying purposes. There is a check on this power, the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. Prior approval from this court is not necessary - it can be granted 'after the fact'.

So, if Bush can use the NSA, and does not currently need prior approval to use it (negating the argument that he needs this power to 'move quickly'), why cut this check on executive power out of the loop? Honestly, this just doesn't pass the smell test.

Put that together with recent revelations that the FBI is using precious assets and personnel to spy on vegans, Quakers, and Greenpeace members instead of islamic terrorists, and connect the dots.

The war on islamic terror is real. It is also a fact that the executive is taking advantage of this reality to greatly expand their powers in areas unrelated to the war on terror.

We need to keep paying attention.

[BluffTHIS!]

The "slippery sloap" thing is just an overused scare tactic. The only reason to temporarily not follow normal procedures is because the demands of war time intelligence have a greater urgency and the FISA process is actually longer than 72 hours and sometimes is too long for a pressing intelligence gathering need.

We live in a robust democracy and have the ability to elect legislators who can ammend the constitution if necessary to redress anything carried too far. And we actually still have far less secrecy and governmental powers in defense and intelligence matters that Britain does with their Official Secrets Act and the government's ability to use royal prerogative powers, and they haven't gone down the road to 1984 Big Brother, even though some there don't like those government powers either.

[zipo]

>>The "slippery sloap" thing is just an overused scare tactic.<<

It's not a 'tactic' - it addresses a reality that our founders were acutely aware of, namely that 'power corrupts'. That is precisely why they devised an elaborate system of checks and balances on power. The fact that our experiment in Democracy has been so successful is a monument to their wisdom - and that wisdom should not be carelessly dismissed or discarded IMO.

>>The only reason to temporarily not follow normal procedures is because the demands of war time intelligence have a greater urgency and the FISA process is actually longer than 72 hours<<

As I pointed out earlier, current law grants the Executive the right to use NSA assets for domestic surveillance *without prior approval*. They do need to present their evidence and rationale to the court after the fact.

Now, if for some reason the current system is too unwieldy, slow, or 'bureaucratic', why not change or adjust the law to streamline the process? No attempt was made to do this. The president simply, unilaterally, decided that law did not apply to him.

Honestly, plenty of people - patriots, liberals, conservatives - are deeply troubled by this development.