Did I get the most out of this flopped boat?

[hgoodman]

2/5 NL Pokerroom game, I've got ~700, villain has ~1800

I'm dealt AA in MP... one limper to me, I raise to 20 (standard raise)... SB calls and limper calls. Flop comes:

A, 10, 10... two diamonds (forgive me I don't recall which ones)

It's checked around to me, I bet 20 hoping someone will be chasing a flush and I don't want to look suspicious checking. My other option was a larger bet but I didn't want to risk not getting paid off with this hand. Both of them call.

Turn is J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] giving the diamond flush a chance which I was happy to see... it's checked to me again and this time I check, hoping to give the impression the diamond scares me.

River is a black K putting a straight draw out there as well. SB bets 10 (???) and gets a caller... I raise to 50, he raises to 80 and the caller folds...

Now earlier in a different hand with another player there was a straight draw like 9 10 J Q on the board and he made a comment about not believing another player having a K... he raises, the other player calls and he turns over AK for the nut straight. The reason I bring this up is before he makes his raise to 80 he says he doesn't think I have the Q for the straight. At the time I thought it was fishy but didn't realize it meant he had a great hand too. I ended up raising to 200 and he called and turned over 10 J for a smaller boat and I took it down, but I'm wondering if I should have recognized that comment meant he had a great hand too and if I could have gotten more out of him. My thinking at the time was I wanted to get paid off, but should I have known that if he was gonna reraise me then he would have called more than 200?

[SlickBorv]

that's a tough one. if someone REraises, you can usually go all in and expect a call. Good poker players do not reraise when there's a full house possibility on the board. (unless they are the ones that have the boat)

[lapoker17]

I think your mistake was made on the turn. You have to bet here - In this case that would have made you much more money. It would be very possible someone just made his flush there and was hoping to check raise you (even with the paired board), it's also very possible that any T is going to make a call there as well. Once you've gotten that round of betting in, it makes it even harder for him to release his boat on the river and the pot gets much larger. On boards like this where there of a lot of possibilities for big hands (and I have one of the biggest), I generally don't slow down.

[Louie Landale]

Yes, the reraise and the comment pretty much guarantee a strong hand. Now I would like to point out that it means a strong hand in HIS mind. In this case he reraised with bottom full house which was a pretty weak 3-bet considering the situation.

Lets go back to the turn. If he has a full house or a T or a flush or a made straight you make more money betting the turn then slow-playing, hehehe. If he has only a straight draw (or underpair) your EV is pretty small, since you won't make much money in the unlikely event that he DOES make the straight. Turns out slow-playing yeilds the most when he has a stiff A and won't call the turn but may call a small bet on the end (or if he's aggressive and will bluff).

No surprise, not much money to be made when he's weak.

All-in-all, bet some reasonable amount on the turn such that you have a reasonable amount to bet on the river.

Slow-playing and adding an extra bet or two in limit makes sense in these situations, but in NL an extra small bet pails to the really big bet you win when he's got something.

- Louie

- Louie

[lapoker17]

Sorry - Forgot to add this. I'm normally not one to get too scared of things like quads or straight flushes, but if there were a time, it might be here. He obviously didn't have it, but against some players I'm not playing for my whole stack here - KQ diamonds could easily be a holding as could TT - If he pushes on you in the end, I'm not sure what I would do.

You seemed to have a read that you were ahead the whole time, so I trust your read, but just thought this was an interesting thing to think about.

[wetfish]

I really don't like the $20 bet on the flop into a $60-70 pot. Flopping an over house with a flush draw on the board having raised preflop.... It doesn't get much better than this in terms of probability that someone else has hit a good part of the flop. I would definitely make a pot sized bet here for the following reasons.

a) it reinforces in the average players mind that you have AK-AQ and want to take the pot now.
b) If anyone does have a 10 then now the pot is circa $130, they are more inclined think the pot is worth a raise themselves
c) any flush draw might either call hoping to slow you down or might even think they can fake a 10 themselves and have enough bluffing with outs equity to try an push you off the flop and raise.

d) anybody with no part of the flop might be tempted to try and push you off the pot and represent a 10.


basically there are numerous scenarios which will elicit a call or raise of a pot sized bet.

Ask yourself how you would have played if you had AK and not AA in this situation ? If you still come out betting $20 into $70 then I guess our styles have no overlap and so what ever I say would not sound right but your reasoning that you didn't want to risk not getting paid off and hence only bet $20 is dubious and counter productive to getting paid bigtime, hey if nobody has hit any part of the flop then your chances of getting paid are slim anyway.

only my opinion
best of luck

[hgoodman]

Thanks for your feedback, the more I think about it the more I agree 100% with what you said. I think had their been more than 2 callers I would have bet heavier but got scared that I was gonna chase them off. You make a good point though, if someone was gonna call 20 then they were probably gonna call 40 or 60. Then that sets up bigger bets on the turn and river instead of the relatively small bets compared to the pot size.

[Cornell Fiji]

His comment that he does not think that you do not have a straight means that he has at least a flush, most likely the boat. You MUST push all in on this river... I believe taht he will call your raise of $200 about 90% of the time but will call your bet of $600 about 75% of the time, even if he were only to call it 30% of the time it is still the correct play. This is a no brainer.

Also obviously bet ~40 on the turn. If they hit their flush they are going to call if they have a 10 they might raise to shut it down right there, if they have the K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], they might push with their straight flush draw. Give them the opportunity to make a mistake and also play for a bigger pot on the river.

Steve