Playing for a living (long)

[MegaBet]

Great great post Merrell Fan!

I'm a relative newcomer to doing this professionally, so I'm still in the "I'm loving having no boss" honeymoon right now. It's fantastic to hear about your experiences, ups and downs, just to get my head straight about the whole thing.

My biggest worry? I used to work for an investment bank and it's an area I could get back into tomorrow if I needed to. However, I'm concerned that in a few years time when the poker craze has died down, as most people have predicted, would the 5 years I took out (arbitrary figure) come back to haunt me? Can I write that from 2005-2010 I was a professional poker player, and still be able to get back into my old industry if/when I decide to settle down and be more "responsible", etc? I have a good bachelors degree and 7 years experience working in both London and New York.

Another benefit of doing this in the UK is not having to pay any taxes on my winnings and not having to have medical insurance. Would appreciate your thoughts, or the thoughts of others here.

[downtown]

Like any home business, it's better to prove that you can make the side income before it's what you depend on to live.

If I were in your situation, I would not be able to handle the stress when I hit a big downswing.

I plan on playing $55s/$109s full-time (by that I mean my only source of income while I finish my Masters) starting January '06 with a bankroll of $10K. I have multiple safety nets. My fiance, who will then be my wife makes way more than enough to cover all our expenses. I will have the option of getting student loans, should I need them. I'll have a great job waiting for me when I graduate. I think all of this will ultimately allow me to play to the best of my ability becauase I won't worry when I drop $2K or 20 buyins - it won't matter to me in the big picture. If I were in your spot, I don't see how I'd get through it.

I would seriously consider "working" a full time job in spending 40 hours a week finding a 9-5 job. I hope either way that it works out for you.

I'm a single male with no dependants that played poker professionally for 8 months. I basically lived in poverty. Some months i'd be up a few thousand then i'd withdraw to pay some bills, then get a bad run of cards and have to play the lower limits... Grind it out really hard to move up then have to withdraw again. I lived CHEAP

I am a video game designer that multitabled 4 games at once. I'd never recommend doing it as your sole source of income unless you have NO responsiblity... I had minimal responsibility and mentally its is just ugly.

If i had to do it again i'd have a part time job that covered the bills if i ate rice and beans and only washed my clothes in cold water.

Then i'd play poker 4 hours a day.

Going purely pro with what you have said in your post smells like a reciept for disaster.

Swings can last MONTHS i had a 4 week period where i broke even. THen i'd make like 2k in a day, then break even for a week. then make 500 in 2 hours... then lose 500 over 10 hours then make 1000 in an hour and then lose 500 in 15 minutes. THen you have nothing happen for 25 hours.

[MegaBet]

Just guessing, but do you play the $215s? Sounds suspiciously like it.

[FatTony21]

Since you have 3 months of savings, I'd say you should try to find a way to increase that to at least 6 months, and plan a budget based on 1 monthly withdraw of expenses. As you win (hopefully), replenish that money, then increase your bankroll. You're going to find the stress of a downswing overwhelming if you constantly have a monetary goal each month. It's much easier to focus on playing good poker when you have a good supply of available cash to cover expenses and emergencies.

Others may disagree, but I'd suggest working on playing more tables first, then moving up in a level. If you're on a monthly budget, this will help "smooth-out" the variance for you and your family. It's still there, of course, but that 1000 game break-even streak can be over in 2-3 weeks of 12 tabling 22s-55s as opposed to 3 months of 4 tabling the 215s.

One thing you need to check up on. I'm originally from Ohio, and as I recall, Ohio taxes gambling winnings, but does not allow you to deduct gambling losses against those winnings. Check with an Ohio tax professional before you take the plunge, as this could have severe negative consequences depending on how then interpret a "gambling session."

[beeyjay]

I am in college but I have been supporting myself for the past year and a half or so with poker so ill make a couple comments.

1. like i said im in college and knowing i have my parents there to bail me out if everything went absolutely wrong is a highly underated thing. i don't know if i could handle the swings without this.

2. I used to cash out only when I really needed the money which i now think is a bad idea. my roll would go from 3k to about 6k and since it was just numbers online i really didnt see much difference. Now I cash out 400 bucks a twice a week which is pretty equal to my expenses. Then at the end of the month I take rakeback and maybe a little more out and go shopping with it for whatever i want. I think this is kind of key, this allows me to feel like i'm making money. My bank account always has money for stuff I want to do and I never feel crunched by waiting for a withdrawal to process or thinking I work all the damn time and still don't have any money to play with. So i definitly think if you did do it you should cash out twice a month or on some set schedule for some set amount.

3. You will grow very sick of the game. I know there are others on here that have been playing longer than me and who play waaaayyy more hands than i do a week but even 8 tabling 15-20 hours a week you see soo many hands that it becomes a complete grind. I know that sounds cliche but its the truth.

4. I would def. keep at least 75 buyins if you're supporting people with this.

I don't know whatever you do good luck.

[Gomez22]

Thank you for the comments and in depth-ness of your reply....

I was in charge of payroll at my job, so I know the ins-n-outs of that, and usually, I did the quarterly tax reports myself, so I have familiarity with that aspect, as well.

In the back of my mind, I was anticipating needing somewhere in the neighborhood of at least $4K/month, considering taxes and all, and like I said in OP, $3K is a touch over what I anticipate ($500 over, give or take).

In the "real world", I think I may be able to do this to supplement our income a bit, but I think, in all honesty, that it would be safer for me to get a job. My wife works someplace where they offer medical, but the employees must pay for that. I had hospitalization at my possible former job, but no medical/dental.

If I'm rambling, I apologize, but this is unlike anything I've experienced before and I'm only 26 hours into it...... the next few weeks/months should be interesting to say the least if I don't get asked to come back (in which case, there would be terms that would need to be agreed to).

Once again, much appreciated,
'Mez

[JJKillian]

Just my 2 cents, to give you some more thought on the matter.

I currently consider myself semi-pro. Just my own definition. Basically someone that puts more time into poker than their current job.

I went full time back in July for 1 whooping whole week. That week decided to be my current worst downswing ever. And that was at the 109 lvl.

Couple things I learned about being a full time pro.

1. It will change your personal life. One of the post in this thread mentioned that briefly. I am just going to bring it to light even more. It will make you more stressed. Which in turn makes you deal with people differently. Which in turn will effect your game...so on and so forth. The mental fortatude required is insane. Gigabets post in the MTT FAQ sticky post is probably the best post I have ever read on here period. But it is mainly on that subject alone. Do not under estimate it.

2. 7.65% is what your current (x employeer) pays to social security for you. PLus medicare, un employement tax, etc. You will also pay another 7.65% as an employee (1099) when you "pay yourself".

3. No amt of money (well I am sure there is a lvl) will take the stress away. I had a major luxury when I decided to try it for a week. I currently make 2k a week after taxes. My job takes no more than 10 hours a week of my time. Have no car payments (2 cars) and a minimal mortgage. It still made me short in patience and consumed me. Poker was no longer fun, it was a grind.

Bottom line is. This was my experience. In the end I realized it wasn't worth it for my family. If that week would have been my best ever, I am sure I would have felt different. But that week would have happened eventually anyway.

When I see posts like this I normally pass by them. But you seem very level headed and planned out. Plus, like me, you have a family to consider. So just wanted to share my experiences with you.

One last thing. It took me months to get my confidence back. I was going to play in the main event this year, and didn't because that week screwed me up so bad. My game is just now (over the past month) getting back to where it was.

GL no matter what your decision.

JJ

[suited_ace]

OK, a few questions for you:

Can you live the next 2 months without making a cent from poker?

Were this results achieved 4-tabling?

The pressure of having to make at least $2k/month is something that can be very tough on you, specially in the beginning. I'd give myself at least 2 months to learn and understand SnGs well enough to start moving up. You want to be in the $55s ASAP. If $2k/month is your minimum, you need to be making way more than that in a "good month" so you can be prepared for the bad ones.

You have a decent BR for the $22s, but you don't have enough experience. Play at least 500 tournies at the $11s before moving up. 1000 tournies would be ideal, but if your results for the first 500 have been good enough, moving up is no big deal.

I like to play with a 50 BI BR, and have a way of rebuying myself back in if I ever go broke.

Consider the option of finding a mentor for your development as an SnG player. It will greatly accelerate your learning curve.

Well, that's it... Sorry for the random thoughts, I'm just waking up.

[Newt_Buggs]

Given that the games will get tougher and that you still have little experience this seems like a very bad plan.