early stages against total idiots

[stoli]

This keeps on happening.... It seems very often when I'm playing MTTs I will raise with a good hand. Get called in at least one spot, make a bet and either on the flop or turn get check-raised some ridiculous amount or my entire stack. Usually this is coming at the beginning of the tourney when the blinds are still like 10/15 and there's a 100 bucks in the pot. The people doing it are total idiots but I don't want to risk my entire tourney on a marginal hand in the first 15 minutes of the tourney. Should I be much more tight at the start of the tourney and wait for these players to be eliminated. Any suggestions? Examples below.


Example: 1
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) internettexasholdem.com

UTG+1 (t985)
UTG+2 (t1000)
MP1 (t1000)
MP2 (t1000)
Hero (t1055)
CO (t1090)
Button (t900)
SB (t985)
BB (t1000)
UTG (t985)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls t15, ,4 folds,Hero raises to t45, 2 folds, SB calls t35, BB calls t30, UTG calls t30.

Flop: (t177.50) :7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], j [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], t [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
BB is all-in [940], UTG folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t1117.50


Example 2:
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Button (t955)
SB (t985)
BB (t970)
UTG (t955)
Hero (t1010)
UTG+2 (t1150)
MP1 (t900)
MP2 (t1120)
MP3 (t955)
CO (t1000)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with :a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], :j [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to t60, 7 folds, BB calls t45.

Flop: (t127.50) :4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], :9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], :k [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t115, BB raises to t325, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t567.50

Why are you raising with these two hands in these positions? That's a dangerous habit.

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Why are you raising with these two hands in these positions? That's a dangerous habit.

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My thoughts too. You gotta let those hands go, or, maybe, just maybe, call with them. Definitely not raising pf with them.

[stoli]

and you have read harrington on hold'em and supersystem right? I think it's a little weak to be folding, I can see just calling and playing them carefully as a speculative hand. The KJs was in the last middle position spot and folded to me and the AJs is up front so should probably just be limped with and played ultra carefully hoping to pick up a flush draw or straight draw.

First hand, it was either someone getting excited about having 89 and hitting their straight, or they had a flush draw and thought it was the nuts.

Second one is an easy laydown once check raised, I think you overbet it there though, I would have bet about 75-100 there.

Some people like being super tight in the start of them when there is alot of donks, but I like to loosen up some myself, still play good hands well, but try to double up because of a donk player who doesn't know any better. I mean, if you don't get all that money, either the donks will eliminate themselves til there is a superdonk, or other good players will be feasting on them.

I don't see a problem with folding in either of those hands though.

[daveymck]

I think this is the dilema thats probably been discussed a lot here, do you play tight and hold out for the later rounds or dry and outdonk the donks and double up.

In the end I think its down to your style of play and confidence at a being able to play well postflop and b accepting the fact you will have a higher rate of early bustouts.

Personally I am in the tight early camp and probably would not of played either hand early on a party 1,000 chip tournament but may have played the AJs on a 1,500 slower blind UB one.

[Cactus Jack]

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I think this is the dilema thats probably been discussed a lot here, do you play tight and hold out for the later rounds or dry and outdonk the donks and double up.

In the end I think its down to your style of play and confidence at a being able to play well postflop and b accepting the fact you will have a higher rate of early bustouts.

Personally I am in the tight early camp and probably would not of played either hand early on a party 1,000 chip tournament but may have played the AJs on a 1,500 slower blind UB one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I'm trying to find a middle ground. I've worked very hard at developing my post-flop skills. This has benefitted me greatly when I'm not getting any cards because often I can bluff in the right spots to pick up a few small pots and stay in it. Plus I can play a few more hands because I can usually outplay them.

When you're not getting any cards, then you'll play hell trying to stay ahead of the blinds, if you're too tight. If you're too loose, you run the risk of bleeding chips and again getting blinded out.

What is most important, I think, is playing semi-loose early, <u>if you can get away from a hand</u> . If you can't, stay with tight play. What we're seeing in these two examples it loose play from a player that doesn't quite understand how to play the style.

Stoli, if you're going to play hands like this OOP, then you want to play them cheaply--not raising marginal hands like these--and be able to get out of them if you don't hit the flop strongly. Middle pair is not flopping strongly, as you're out of position and can be drained of a lot of chips. I'd advise you to tighten up...a lot.

CJ

[zambonidrivr]

both of these are pre-flop folds and you are a donkey for playing them. seriously, get a clue. i am not tying to be a dick here, but kj and aj is about as marginal as it comes.

[Sam T.]

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both of these are pre-flop folds and you are a donkey for playing them. seriously, get a clue. i am not tying to be a dick here, but kj and aj is about as marginal as it comes.

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I disagree completely. These are very good limping hands especially at level one. You just have to remember that you are playing KJs for two-pair or better. Folding AJs preflop is weak-tight.

[Brad F.]

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both of these are pre-flop folds and you are a donkey for playing them. seriously, get a clue. i am not tying to be a dick here, but kj and aj is about as marginal as it comes.

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I disagree completely. These are very good limping hands especially at level one. You just have to remember that you are playing KJs for two-pair or better. Folding AJs preflop is weak-tight.

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Do you mean at level one for AJs? I fold AJs UTG+1 in many situations and I'm far from weak-tight.

Brad