3/6 vs LAGs - call flop on implied odds for runner-runner?

#1 12-01-2005, 07:05 AM

I've come to realise a la sshe that folding a long-shot draw in a big multi-way LAGgy pot is bad, but am still struggling a little with implied odds while at the table. Can anyone find a flop call here? Looking back i see i called a 3.9% shot with immediate odds of 16-1, needing to make a further 5BB on the turn + river. A couple of weeks ago i would've walked away from this on the flop, so am i spewing now or have i seen the light?

Reads:

SB: 75 / 12.5 / 0.8 / 16
UTG: 55 / 6.5 / 1.2 / 105
UTG+1: 55 / 6.5 0.8 / 16
CO: 18 / 15 / 2.6 / 159
Button: 23 / 4.1 / 0.8 / 122

Note, reads on SB and UTG+1 v weak, but had just seen UTG+1 cold call a raise preflop with Q5off (and take it down with 5s full), while SB was raising/reraising any overcard draws. Basically i was looking for an excuse to stay in the hand with these guys.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, 3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB raises, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, CO folds, Button folds.

Turn: (8.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: (16.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 21.50 BB

bakku · #2 12-01-2005, 07:07 AM

this flop fold is beyond easy

#3 12-01-2005, 07:20 AM

Very easy fold. Gotta take into your effective odds here, since you'll have to also call a turn bet to complete your hand.

Also, routinely fold 78s pf from early position.

tetonpete · #4 12-01-2005, 07:45 AM

i agree that he should fold the flop, and you also need to take into account that the pot might be raised behind you on the flop, cutting your effective odds down further...

I routinely fold 78s from ep, and often from middle and later postions as well, if there haven't been a lot of limpers, and the game isn't too loose. But I'm not sure I wouldn't want to limp here with 5 players who are seeing over half the flops, raising few of them, cold calling the rest and going too far with their hands. I honestly can't remember the last time I was in a game like this. Anyone else feel this way?

#5 12-01-2005, 07:56 AM

I routinely fold this preflop too - my vpip is around 16% overall, around 10-12% in EP. Regardless of the (ridiculous?) call on the flop, i guess the point is how far can you push marginal hands in these situations?