am i raising the flop with overcards too often?

TStoneMBD · #1 03-30-2005, 02:38 AM

ive been making this play alot lately. it used to work great. people would check the turn to me every time. now people who i dont even have hands on bet into me on the turn after i raise them on the flop. they only seem to do it when i dont have a pocket pair though. its probably just coincidence, but its really annoying nonetheless.

should i only take this line against passive players? the player in question was an unknown. should i fold/call/raise against him here?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, Button calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: (7.33 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, Hero raises, Button folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: (5.66 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6.66 BB

wrto4556 · #2 03-30-2005, 03:27 AM

Pretty easy fold, imo.

ArturiusX · #3 03-30-2005, 03:30 AM

I don't know if I try a cheap showdown with KQ and no draws other than overcards.

tetonpete · #4 03-30-2005, 03:38 AM

I think the read is the key preflop...a very tight passive player will often be ahead, as he's not limping with less than QK too often. A tight aggressive player is possibly further ahead, as he is very likely to be limping with either a smallish pocket pair, or with a hand like 10Js. With this flop you want to be against someone who's limping with hands like KJo.
The button complicates things. I'd probably just call the flop and fold unimproved. Against a stop and go I'm folding the turn...you have six outs and could easily be drawing dead to a set.

cassady · #5 03-30-2005, 03:41 AM

I'm not so sure it's such an easy fold. It depends what you put MP1 on. He has a hand that's good enough for a call, didn't warrant a raise, and didn't warrant a three bet. Yet he was still willing to be into the turn after a raise preflop and river. We don't know anything here about his previous play. What are his starting card requirements like before this? Would he play pocket 5's or 3's in a relatively early position? If he's willing to keep firing with TPTK, A10 would explain this play as well. The only other hand that makes sense is 6-7 suited. Note that it takes a looser player to play most of these hands from MP1 without callers before. If he's not on trips or the straight, odds are good that all your outs are clean, and in this case, you're just barely getting pot odds to call with your over cards.

TStoneMBD · #6 03-30-2005, 03:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What are his starting card requirements like before this? Would he play pocket 5's or 3's in a relatively early position?

[/ QUOTE ]

i play 8 tables. i have absolutely no idea.

hate · #7 03-30-2005, 03:47 AM

Stop and go doesn't mean anything here other than he's got something he likes, and expects you to be on the worse end of the stick. People read too much into bets on the turn. These players might be donks, but most of them understand the whole giving a free card thing to likely overcards. I also don't read much into a turn bet out for supermade hands. Players love to checkraise their made monsters. I don't raise for a free card every time, but I don't think it's a bad play here, and I don't at all mind the turn fold.

TStoneMBD · #8 03-30-2005, 03:56 AM

how can i even consider calling the turn getting 6.5:1 on a 6outter that is potentially tainted?

#9 03-30-2005, 07:08 AM

this is sthief09. I don't have the password to my account

anyway, 2 reasons why I don't raise the flop:
1. the board is dry and it's unlikely he's betting a draw
2. you have K high. with A high at least you beat a wheel draw or something like AJ. with KQ there goes a lot of the hands you beat

I'm surprised you're playing 8 tables already. aren't you very new to online poker? that's impressive. it took me a while to be able to play 4