Controversy over symbols and racism .

[wacki]

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Sorry wacki, but you absolutely suck in this thread.

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Well Evan has argued that the symbolism has changed over time and that it now stands for racism. At the same time people in this thread have refused to accept that the symbol might actually mean something to others than rebelling against the north and slavery. People refuse to believe that to some people it might mean state pride, states rights, and those people don't intend to start another civil war.

So I posted pics of the General Lee and black people holding the flag. All the people who claim the flag is only displayed by inbred racists **cough *** Evan and friends ***cough*** have refused to aknowledge the fact that those black people see the flag symbolizing something else.

I find that amazing.

Then clarkmeister jumps in and says something completely unrelated to my original flag=hate symbol post and everyone here and on IRC sucks his balls. He then says something historically inaccurate and people suck his balls even harder.

Well since you guys are only listening to 2+2 icons and I've lost all credibility. I will only ask you to look at the picks I posted once more and then read this El Diablo quote:

I long ago tried to stop worrying about words and just focus on people's intentions. If you take a little time to react less impulsively in these situations and try to look beyond the words, perhaps you'll develop a greater understanding and appreciation of who's really bigoted and who isn't.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=0&vc=1

He was talking about something else, but I still think it's relevant.

Here is a Blarg quote:


The truth is, doing it any other way just unnecessarily injects your own personal bad feelings into situations where they don't belong, and says nothing about anybody but you.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=4040134

[thatpfunk]

TSC- Once again, regardless of how "american" it was (which I am not exactly denying), they lost. They did not secede. Our country is how it is because they lost. IMO, people who tried to destroy the fabric of what were are supposed to be patriotic about should not be celebrated.

SL- I didn't include politics, learn to [censored] read. Southern [censored] rap evolved in (guess where???) the south, fuckhead. You don't blame a bastardized version of one type of music on the good music that came first. I'm glad that you figured out that I blew the election for John Kerry, I've been nervously waiting for someone to blow my cover. Try making some goddamn sense.

JoA- You are pretty much spot on. Slight disagreement: my best friend from high school now goes to Clemson. We've definetly talked about the race issue (his freshman year roomate asked why he had a picture with his arm around a n----r) and he believes that it is (or at least more out in the open) significantly more racist there. Your classism points are 100% correct, imo.

[ThaSaltCracka]

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what a jack ass. Massachusetts is about as liberal a state as they come, and the 2 most popular Red Sox players over the past 10 years have both been Dominican.

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And Boston is also considered a notoriously racist city. Barry Bonds is far from the first person to say this.

[/ QUOTE ]true true true. IIRC, the Red Sox were the last team in the majors with a black player. This doesn't happen by accident.

[kenberman]

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And Boston is also considered a notoriously racist city. Barry Bonds is far from the first person to say this.

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if this was 1963, you would be correct. when was the last time you heard a credible athlete make a claim like this? the environment in Boston has changed a TON - go ask Bill Russell about this.

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Political liberalism doesn't exclude racism, by any means. Refraining from ethnic slurs doesn't mean that you can't be racist.

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fine, but neither of these things make us racist, either.

[kenberman]

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what a jack ass. Massachusetts is about as liberal a state as they come, and the 2 most popular Red Sox players over the past 10 years have both been Dominican.

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And Boston is also considered a notoriously racist city. Barry Bonds is far from the first person to say this.

[/ QUOTE ]true true true. IIRC, the Red Sox were the last team in the majors with a black player. This doesn't happen by accident.

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wow, excellent. glad to see what was true 40 years ago is automatically assumed to be true today, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

[Voltron87]

kneel-

give this one up.

[Evan]

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People refuse to believe that to some people it might mean state pride, states rights, and those people don't intend to start another civil war.


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No wacki, that's not true. I do not think that NO ONE waves the Confedrate flag without any racist views. I've said that many times. If I put it on Google will you start remembering it?

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So I posted pics of the General Lee and black people holding the flag. All the people who claim the flag is only displayed by inbred racists **cough *** Evan and friends ***cough*** have refused to aknowledge the fact that those black people see the flag symbolizing something else.

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Good job, you found 5 black people that like the flag. If I find 6 that don't will I be right?

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I long ago tried to stop worrying about words and just focus on people's intentions. If you take a little time to react less impulsively in these situations and try to look beyond the words, perhaps you'll develop a greater understanding and appreciation of who's really bigoted and who isn't.

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Replace "words" with "pictures" and you sort of just shot yourself in the foot.

[wacki]

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Spin it any way you want, I suppose.

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How about since the South was supposed to lose the war instantly, they beat the spread by 4 years. Just admit it Evan, that quote wasn't accurate.

[kenberman]

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I long ago tried to stop worrying about words and just focus on people's intentions. If you take a little time to react less impulsively in these situations and try to look beyond the words, perhaps you'll develop a greater understanding and appreciation of who's really bigoted and who isn't.

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and El D is exactly right! the majority of people who fly confederate flags are not doing it b/c of 'heritage' or whatever.

just b/c some well meaning people do doesn't mean the majority don't.

for the thousandth time: flying the conf. flag did not become popular until the Civil Rights movements. if the flag really stood for heritage, this would not be the case.

[gumpzilla]

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if this was 1963, you would be correct. when was the last time you heard a credible athlete make a claim like this? the environment in Boston has changed a TON - go ask Bill Russell about this.

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Because how a city treats its professional athletes is clearly the best measure of its feelings on race relations.

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fine, but neither of these things make us racist, either.

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You do realize that to say Boston is a racist city is a far cry from saying all Bostonians are racists, right? I'm claiming nothing of the sort.