Bet AA preflop to reduce the number of callers?

[ggano]

[ QUOTE ]
The are limping in with garbage or low ev hands trying to hit big and take advantage of the implied odds,

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

[ QUOTE ]
but you refuse to pay them off.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Instead, you refuse to let them limp.

There are 2 ways to reduce the implied odds that your opponents are getting against you. One is to refuse to pay them off, but that's not easy to do. Are they pushing hard with a set or a flush, or are they pushing hard with TPTK or a good draw? You certainly can fold aces postflop but man it's difficult to know when to do so, probably even for the top pros.

The other way to reduce implied odds is to make people pay preflop, and that's way easier. Your goal is to make people put their money in before they know if the flop hits them or not. The whole idea of implied odds is that they can keep going with the hand if the board helps them, or fold (and save their money) if it doesn't. So you need to make them pay before they can make that decision, and that's by getting the money in preflop.

[spaminator101]

this is some of the only smart things i have heard on this forum the people who run this should do a stupid filter

[SynSid]

[ QUOTE ]
On TV you see pros calling raises with suited connectors. Do you think if the raiser flashed AA, the pro would still call?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd think that being shown AA would make it MORE likely that they'd call.

1. If you hit your hand you'd far rather be up against AA than anything else as it's far more likely to pay you off.
2. Not only do you know they've got AA, but far more importantly they know that you know they've got AA. That makes it very hard for them to call if you decide to bluff.

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
yes but your AA will rarely improve

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't need to improve. The other players do.


[/ QUOTE ]
Oh but they will. Out of 9 players, assuming 6 of them have pocket pairs and two have AK, AQ, let's give them KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88 and 67s just for the heck of it.

There are 32 unveilled cards and 5 more to come. There are no aces left in the deck. The odds of the next five cards to be all amongs the 22 that don't make a set are:
[22!(32-5)!/32!(22-5)!]= 0.13077. Now add 6% for that flush to come up, or you know what, forget the flush. I would have to calculate joint probabilities with the sets. So you see, even if 6 players have PP's your AA still have only a 13.1% to hold up. Also consider that if none hit a set, then the only cards that appear on the board are 7, 6, 5, 4, 3 and 2. Now couldn't there be a straight happening here for the 67s?

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

you might be a favorite over every single individual opponent but as the feild grows large AA still loses value

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it doesn't. It's winning percentage drops, but the money it makes from each additional player increases by more than enough to offset the increase in losses. Translation - you win more money vs more opponents.


[/ QUOTE ]
Mathematically against random cards, AA maybe very strong. But these are not random cards, 9 players are not all in with rags, most obviously already have PP's. See explanation above.

[ QUOTE ]

i am mostly a tournament player please dont tell me you want to go in with aces pre flop and have everyone call you in a tournament

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed

[ QUOTE ]

I have a 31% chance of increasing my stack by 9x. I'll take that. Do the math: start with 1000 in chips. .31*T10,000 + .69*T0 = T3100. Find me another situation that is this high in value. (Hint: The only ones close are AA vs 8 players all-in and AA vs 10 players all-in)

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, 31% against cards that are 100% random, including pocket 3's and 26o. See assumption above.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your analysis is worthless because you're taking one very specific situation and assuming it's representative of every possible scenario.

From twodimes.net:

Your scenario Notice the EV of AA is .057 - obviously a loser.

Now, change just one card (change AKs to KQs) and look here - The EV of AA has jumped up to .157 - Clearly a significant winner.

Stop throwing numbers around when you have no idea what you're talking about.

Because I only play NL trnys, I will stick to that. AA can be played many ways preflop, but it all depends on the situation. In the early levels of a trny the blinds are so low that raising 2 to 3 BBs wont usually push out weaker hands, so if you raise, raise big. The problem with this is raising big early in a trny will only usually win you the blinds, which isnt much early on. Remember, though, better to win a small pot than lose a big one. So early on, I'll try to limp from any position if I don't have a raiser in front of me. If I do have a raiser, I'll reraise and try to isolate him HU. If his raise is big enough that I wouldnt mind him folding, I'll push all in and race him if he calls.
The most important thing to remember with AA is that, while it is the best starting hand, it may not be the best hand after the flop. Anytime I limp with AA, I do it hoping for a raise, preflop. If I don't get one, then I'm forced to play the flop more conservative. Do not be afraid to lay them down. If you find yourself not able to lay them down post flop, then raise preflop every time you have them, from any position, so your not matched up against weaker hands. If you've never folded AA post flop, I suggest you work on your discipline. One of the most important actions in poker is folding, and if you can't lay down monster starting hands post flop, i.e. AA, KK, QQ, etc., then you'll never reach your full potential as a poker player.

[CORed]

With AA, you want to play it in the manner that will build the biggest pot preflop. Usually this is a raise. In a limit game that is either very tigh, very agressive, or both, sometimes if you are opening, limp-reaising is good. I'm not that good a no-limit or pot-limit player, but usually I'm going to make a standard (4-5xBB, more with lots of limpers) raise. If somebody has already put in a big raise in a NL game, I will push.

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
AA plays well against few opponents, not against the whole table.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

AA has a huge pot equity edge agains few or many opponents. AA will win about 30% against 9 random hands going all the way to the river. This is a huge pot equity edge. Build the pot. The only thing you don't want to do is steal the blinds. Stealing the blinds and several limps in a PL, NL or spread limit game is fine, though.

[spaminator101]

yes against a random group of hands you will win 30% of the time but what makes you think your up against random hands

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
yes against a random group of hands you will win 30% of the time but what makes you think your up against random hands

[/ QUOTE ]

What makes you think that you're not even more of a favorite, since your opponents may hold many (or all) of each other's outs?

limit- not a chance! u misdisguise ur hand and even if everyone knows, its still profitable for them to call the 2nd bet because the pot will be gianormous. call, hope to set up, but be prepared to fold here. AA at a limit table will loose huge pots, and win little ones!

on nl, bet heavy, sometimes if the calls or raises are enough, its better to pick up those instead of allowing people to see the flop for a midsized raise.
GL
CDL