2 straight draws for your viewing pleasure...

[blackaces13]

Hand 1: None of my opponents are aggressive.

I have 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] UTG+1
I open limp, next guy calls, a couple of folds and the CO also calls, SB folds, BB checks.

4 to the flop for 2.25 BB:

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
BB checks, I bet, both limpers call, BB folds.

3 players to the turn for 3.75 BB:

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
I check, next guy bets, CO RAISES, my action

I'm getting a little over 3:1 on this call, I'm not closing the action, I'm drawing to the nuts in 1 direction (7). What's the play?


Hand 2: No reads.

I have T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the BB
3 limpers, SB completes, I check.

5 to the flop for 2.5 BB:

K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB bets, I call, 3 folds.

HU to the turn for 3.5 BB:

8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
SB bets, my action...

Is this an easy call? What's the minimum pot I need to make this call? How important is my T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ?

[istewart]

In the first hand, I'd call. It sucks that you're not closing the action but the board is rainbow and if you make your straight you can go 4 bets everytime if someone else wants to. Implied odds are good enough here.

In hand 2 I'd call the turn too. I think your T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] has some decent value (maybe around 4 outs' worth) and you have 6 straight outs to boot.

[Isura]

Hand 1: This is a fold imo. Only getting 3:1, not closing the action, I'm not sure you can make it up on just the river in implied odds. I'm much more likely to make this type of loose call on the flop since there are 2 streeets to pick up bets.

Hand 2: Interesting. I'd call. Raising as a semibluff is no good, since he'll call with his flush or straight draw, and any K or J. Call and fold river unimproved.

[Nytecaster]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: None of my opponents are aggressive.

I have 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] UTG+1
I open limp, next guy calls, a couple of folds and the CO also calls, SB folds, BB checks.

4 to the flop for 2.25 BB:

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
BB checks, I bet, both limpers call, BB folds.

3 players to the turn for 3.75 BB:

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
I check, next guy bets, CO RAISES, my action

I'm getting a little over 3:1 on this call, I'm not closing the action, I'm drawing to the nuts in 1 direction (7). What's the play?


[/ QUOTE ]

The best way to look at these situations is from a "what can I win" perspective. If you can expect the payoff to be 12BB by the end of this hand (it is currently at 7.75BB at this snapshot in time), its worth the 6:1 draw on the turn when it's capped (6BB if everyone now calls the turn where the betting is at). This means if the turn is capped, you need to have both guys to throw a bet at the river or get a double bet out of one of them to reach 12BB. I don't like having to count on a double bet on the river to get my odds for improving, especially if these guys aren't aggressive.

Now if you are closing the action on the turn it's another matter and you only need one guy to call you to make it a breakeven play. Good example on the importance of closing the action on drawing hands.

KT is a hand that dominates your made straight by a bigger straight. However, for KT to go this far in the hand is not likely. You are getting full value for your straight should the Q come.

I don't normally like this position unless you are closing the action or if you can really count on a ton of bets in on the river. HOWEVER, you also have a very disguised straight and it could get a lot of action on the river against a second best hand. It's definately worth considering if these guys will continue their aggression on later rounds. If you do continue and make it, I would strongly consider check-raising the river.

[jrz1972]

Hand 1: Call. It would be nice if you were closing the action, but you have four outs to the nuts and four more outs to the almost-nuts. Your hand will be well-disguised if you hit, which helps with the implied odds.

Hand 2: I also call this. You *could* have as many as 20 outs (if I'm counting up correctly vs. K-rag no heart), or you could be drawing dead. The T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is a fairly important card since it gives you an extra way to win the hand by making the third-nut flush. It's hard to put a number on the minimum pot you need to call here without a read on SB, I'm thinking our hand is worth about 12 outs or so (discounting to ~4 for the straight, ~6 for the flush and ~2 for two-pair/trips). So I guess I only need about 3 BBs in the pot to justify a call.

1. call. Check raise the made hand on the river.
2. I don't like it. There's too many hands that could have you drawing dead. Fold.

[SlantNGo]

Hand 1: When the action comes to you, the pot size is ~6.5 BB (dropping 0.25 BB to simulate rake and simplify calculations). The CO raising here likely indicates he hit an Ace or hit Aces up. Hence, he is unlikely to jam the river for multiple bets. On the river, you're in a position to either bet out and collect 1 bet from each of them, or C/R and collect 1 and 1 from CO. Hence, I estimate the expected pot size to be 8.5 BB. Even though you're not drawing to the nuts on the high end of the straight, the action shown by the players makes me believe that a Q is a minimal threat, so we'll leave your total outs at 8. Using DIPO:

8 outs * 8.5 BB pot - (46 - 8) non-outs * 2 BB to call = -8

Fold.

Hand 2: How you count your outs is the key to this hand. I'll discount the two remaining 8s to 1 out for the chance that you hit trips but are against a made flush or straight. I'll give you 3 outs for the remaining 7s. I think the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is worth maybe a quarter of an out here. However, for the Queens, I'll give you 3.5 outs, because if the Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is on board, you have the second nut flush. Hence, we have 7.5 outs. Assuming SB checks to you on the river, you make 1 BB. If he bets, you have the opportunity to make 2. Depending on your read of him, you may have a better approximation, but I'm going to say that we'll make on average 1.25 BB on the river when we're ahead. However, I'm going to use 1 to simplify the calculation to simulate an in-game decision. Again, using DIPO:

7.5 outs * 5.5 BB - (46 - 7.5) non-outs * 1 BB = 2.75

Call.