calling with TPTK

Sorry guys, I should have posted this hand with my other hand.

typical B&M small stakes game. players are very loose and go too far with their hands.

Hero is on the button with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="red">UTG raises</font>, 5 cold calls, <font color="red"> Hero 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BB folds, all others call.

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
All check to CO who bets, Hero calls...

[Nick C]

Um, I don't know. The pot's so huge that I'd like to face someone holding 88 with two cold.

I suppose he won't fold anyway. But I think you may have trouble getting someone with a piece of the board to fold prior to the river, if you're hoping to accomplish that with a turn raise.

[Bodhi]

FPS. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[davet]

Why did you call?

With top pair top kicker, plus a bacdoor flush draw to the nuts, all on an uncoordinated board, this is a great time to raise. I wouldn't be too concerned about thinning the field here, but it will be nice to chase away the small- pair draws or build a big pot (hopefully you rake it in). This is a good turn bet.

Actually, you want to lead out this flop. Slow- playing top pair is a terrible thing to do, unless you are psychic and know you are going to runner- runner quads.

I posted this in another thread, but the same logic applies:

"I thought since the pot was so big, that I shouldn't worry about getting more bets, but rather winning the pot. So, I wanted to raise a turn bet. . .b/c THAT bet would knock people out, where a flop bet wouldn't. No?"

[MyTurn2Raise]

the time to get the draws out is now.
TPTK is not that big of a hand...it's not like you flopped a boat. It might not seem like it, but the 'cheap' turn card will likely help the drawing hands alot more than yours.
Look over SSHE pre-flop concepts. Big pairs and top pair-top kicker hands have the edge on early betting rounds. Punish people then. Drawing hands have the edge on the later betting rounds.

[W. Deranged]

Raise now.

The thing to think about on this hand is what kind of hands you are trying to protect against.

Since you have TPTK on a board with no flush or straight draws, the only hands with outs against you are pairs type hands and hand that can pick up running draws. Note that due to the size of the pot:

-Pocket pairs
-Worse As
-Random running flush and straight possibilities

Will not be making big mistakes calling one bet on the flop, and may even have odds to call one bet. Most of these will not have odds to call two cold.

So, basically, you raise now to give pretty much every hand that is playing against you incorrect odds to call. In such a big pots, most every hand might take off one but few will be able to legitimately take off two.

The time to wait until the turn to raise is when there are tons of possible hands you could be up against that will be correct in calling two on the flop anyway, but not on the turn. That's totally not the case here. There are no legit draws on the flop, and your goal is simply to force all the illegitimate draws (namely those with fewer than 5 outs) to fold rather than call correctly (or close to correctly).

[SackUp]

When apply SSHE goes wrong.

this is a perfect example of why there will still be fish even if they are all educated on the game.

You are lucky you have made it to this forum...keep on posting and reading up. You are just a little off on the application.

[Nytecaster]

Very rarely would I say to smooth call here and I would only do so against tight opponents I know I have solidly beat with little to no outs to help them. Then punish on the turn like you said. However you said in your opponent classification that they often go too far with their hands. This is a sign to raise raise raise the flop so they can make the mistake of calling. You have the best of it even if everyone calls and has odds to draw now. Punish the drawers when you can and the pot is already big, you want to win it.

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry guys, I should have posted this hand with my other hand.

typical B&amp;M small stakes game. players are very loose and go too far with their hands.

Hero is on the button with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="red">UTG raises</font>, 5 cold calls, <font color="red"> Hero 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BB folds, all others call.

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
All check to CO who bets, Hero calls...

[/ QUOTE ]

[Petteri]

I think proper line is to call flop. Pot is around 20 SB and raise is not going to protect your hand well against loose opponents. It just adds so much bets to pot that almost everyone has odds to call 2 big bets cold on turn.

Your plan should be raising turn to protect your hand.