Post for david...

[worm33]

Everybody keeps saying that by defending our BB looser we deter future steals, and that is one of the big benefits. Now if we are making money with our 74o or k2o dont we want people attempting to steal our blind?

[skp]

No, you don't want people raising when you post a blind bet.

Firstly, you don't make money by defending your blinds with hands like 74. Hell, I don't think you make money from the blinds with any hands except the premium ones. The point though is that you may reduce your losses by defending more. Or, at least, that's the question being asked by Hiatus Over.

But overall: We all would be delighted if no one ever raised when we posted our blinds and we certainly don't want a raise when we hold a hand like T7 but the question is whether we should grit our teeth and call in order to reduce the loss we would show if we folded.

[helpmeout]

T7o is an easy defend against all but the tightest players.

Yours odds are very good because a stealer will nearly always autobet HU, a lot of them will also bet the turn with an unimproved ace or even less. check/call check/call works well against aggressive opponents.

When I look for a blind defence hand I generally want something that will hit a few flops whether it be a draw or a middle sized pair. Low pairs generally suck because when you both hit you want to be ahead, a lot of people steal with one high card one trash like A3o K5s etc if you can beat the low card you will do well when he hits his crap pair and you hit yours.

Hands like 97s are great for defence. You can hit a pair/gutshot/OESD/FD, lots of semibluffing opportunities.

I tend to shy away from 1 high card one trash card unsuited. K2o Q3o J6o type hands are pretty worthless for defense imo.

[worm33]

[ QUOTE ]
No, you don't want people raising when you post a blind bet.

Firstly, you don't make money by defending your blinds with hands like 74. Hell, I don't think you make money from the blinds with any hands except the premium ones. The point though is that you may reduce your losses by defending more. Or, at least, that's the question being asked by Hiatus Over.

But overall: We all would be delighted if no one ever raised when we posted our blinds and we certainly don't want a raise when we hold a hand like T7 but the question is whether we should grit our teeth and call in order to reduce the loss we would show if we folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was pretty sure thats what the answer was going to be, I just wanted to make sure you guys wearnt going crazy with this.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
Everybody keeps saying that by defending our BB looser we deter future steals, and that is one of the big benefits. Now if we are making money with our 74o or k2o dont we want people attempting to steal our blind?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, because if nobody raises, you're losing less (making more).

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
The point though is that you may reduce your losses by defending more.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is dead on, but I think the phrase "reduce your losses" is confusing, so I'm going to describe it another way, by counting my blind money as gone and looking at folding as an EV of 0. Now...

EV playing is slightly positive, but EV of everyone folding to me is +.75BB. Clearly I don't want to take a .10 BB situation when there's .75BB one to be had. So if calling loose stops people from attacking my blinds, even sometimes stops them, that's good for me. In fact, now that I look at it, I'm going to defend even more now. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Good luck.
Eric

[bunky9590]

[ QUOTE ]
In terms of my own game, I've gradually been moving toward looser and looser blind play over the time, but there are still a lot of situations where I don't have a set play. Which is just kind of weird.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats not weird at all. I defend probably the most of 2+2 players I know in SH and full ring. (I fold BB to a steal in 6 max only like 41%)

Ceratin hands are a no brainer defend, but against certain opponents (mainly turn folders) I can defend a little looser and blow them off hands (let alone if I flop a hand)

[ QUOTE ]
the metagame benefit of deterring future steals, and the favorable rake structures in midlimit online games, suggest that I should err on the side of defending a bit looser than I already do, and perhaps quite a bit looser than "textbook play" would suggest.

[/ QUOTE ]

The metagame of it is really good. You would be so surprised o at how many "walks" i get in the course of a session when they realize I defend so fiercely and frequently.

[Steve Giufre]

I just wanted to point out that even though I do realize that the difference between calling and folding is very small with a lot of hands in these spots it has to become more important as the limit goes up. Sure it probably doesnt matter if we defend our BB with 10 7 agaist mr12345 in the 15-30 party game. These decisions dont come up often enough to really matter one way or another. But as the limit goes up, there are very few multiway pots, and players in general get much more aggresive over by the button when it is folded to them. This creates a lot more of these spots, so it has to become more important to have a better grasp on what is correct and what is not correct.

[skp]

No doubt. Technically, it's not the limit that matters but the tightness of the game (but of course there is generally a pretty good correlation between the two).

When I played live, it was generally a loose game. But of course there would be hands when it would get folded to the button. I would muck frequently in the blinds because I knew that it was not important for me to defend blinds in order to crush the game. On party 15-30, I defend more than I did live (but probably still not nearly enough) as the games can often be a late position v. blinds contest with the MP players serving as the peanut gallery. I suppose the 30 games on Party are even more along those lines and the 100-200 games even more etc etc.

[theBruiser500]

"JA, even though I dont really like the tone of your posts basically ever"

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet but this just made me stop and go "wow". JASucker is one of the most unoffensive posters around, you are crazy to think that.