Laying AK Down Preflop

[dark_horse]

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I don't like folding here at all. Villain is not pot committed by his raise. It's very unlikely that he has aces or kings. So push over the top of him and watch him fold most of the time and you scoop a nice sized pot.

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i don't think that in a $20 MTT most people are laying down pocket tens in this spot after putting in a sizable reraise. no, they aren't mathematically pot committed but psychologically most are. and i don't want them to call, especially if it is a coinflip. no thanks, next hand.

someone asked how you build your stack up by playing so tight in the early rounds before the antes. if you pick up enough good hands and just play solid poker, you have enough to build on. once the antes kick in the tournament begins; let the coin flip.

[fnurt]

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Forgive a dumb newbie qustion, but here goes. Assuming that the pot odds are in your favor but you don't like even remote 'coin flips ' early on, how do you win the tournament?

Just got through reading Sexton's book when he talks about how Ungar did next to nothing in the early rounds and then when the antes hit, he would rob like crazy. How P. Helmuth follows a similar style and how neither liked to get involved in big pots until they amassed chips by ante and blind stealing. Now if I understand the original poster correctly, he appears to follow this way, as well, cosequently justifying his AK fold as a good one.

Fair enough. But to be specific HOW DO YOU WIN THE ANTES WITHOUT A BIGGER STACK? You've established yourself as supertight (hell, show them the AK as you lay it down! ) but--besides having an almot telepathic read on the opponents--what wll enable you to switch gears and get aggresive when the antes come into play? Isn't the implication that you will have amassed chips in the meantime by playing supertight? At least that's what it sounds like. BuT HOW?
[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
Play only Sklansky's group one hands and if substatially raised pre-flop, fold?? Fold even if the pot odds after the flop are laying you good to great odds? Could someone help this newbie ignoramus with this one?
THX in advance. [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

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For a newbie, you are way ahead of the curve. You have the right instincts, so don't let the folders teach you bad habits which you will have to unlearn later.

Survival counts for nothing in a MTT if you don't increase your stack. And you need to keep up the pace, or hopefully be ahead of it, so people don't take advantage of you as a short stack. So you can't afford to just sit there, folding at every sign of aggression, waiting for AA.

If you have a 60% chance to increase your stack from 2000 to 4000 you must go for it. Period, end of story, no matter how many times you hear the worthless comment "if you lose, you're out." The idea that you can pass up opportunities like this because you can increase your stack with no risk later on is just silly. Even if you just sit there looking to steal the blinds, there's risk, the risk that someone will wake up with a hand, the risk that someone will make a play at you.

If your stack is healthy, there are times you can afford to pass up an unclear gamble; but generally, if you know the pot odds are in your favor by a substantial amount but you pass anyway, you're just not playing good poker.

[dark_horse]

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If your stack is healthy, there are times you can afford to pass up an unclear gamble; but generally, if you know the pot odds are in your favor by a substantial amount but you pass anyway, you're just not playing good poker.

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Pot odds were not substantially in my favor by making this call. The pot was laying me less than 2:1. I am 2.1:1 to flop a pair. If an ace or king fell and he indeed had tens, I doubt he's putting much more money in the pot. Perhaps given the implied odds that he's going to put a bit more in there just to not give his tens up, maybe we're getting 2.1:1 on our money.

edit: my pot odds to call his raise at the time was 1.8.1.

[fnurt]

what if a queen comes? does he magically know to lay down to an ace or king on the flop, but there is no way you can move him off the pot if other big cards come out?

I'm still not sure you're not just supposed to push preflop, considering the position issues.

[redrooski24]

I think this is an interesting hand and post, but I'm gonna throw in another question to it. How does your opinion change(if it all) if you're holding JJ in this spot? QQ? I think these hands in this spot would also present a difficult yet different approach to this scenario. Comments?

[Seadood228]

You'd rather flip later than now? Especially with at least some folding equity?

I'd vote push/fold/call in that order. Against a decent player and/or a fast structure ala Pokerstars, I'll gamble here. I think the times you fold a hand like TT or are called by a 2.5/1 dog will more than make up for your losses in this spot.