3/6 play and leak review - please help

[DrewOnTilt]

Hey all,

I’ve played just under 11k hands at 3/6. Through the first 5000 hands, I lost over -1BB/100. I spent a week going over PT hands, made some adjustments, and have stopped the bleeding to the point of being essentially breakeven over then next 6000 hands. This is a small sample size, but I think that there are some errors in my play that were not apparent at 2/4 and below.

I’ve outlined a plan for improving my 3/6 game. I am going to drop back down to 2/4 and focus on my identified leaks, and I plan to play until I recoup what I have lost at 3/6.

Please comment on the leaks I have identified and anything else that I should consider. Following is a list of leaks and issues that I have identified and have begun to work on.

I would greatly appreciate it if those of you who have found success at 3/6 could add to my list, especially postflop situations.

Here is my list of leaks:

1) Seat selection. At 2/4 I only considered the number of fish at the table and didn’t pay much heed to my position relative to the fish. I knew that this would be more important at 3-6 but was not disciplined in implementing good seat selection. From now on, I will sit down only if I can get a seat 1 or 2 players to the left of the fish, otherwise I will pass on the table until a better seat opens. If there are 3 or more fish donking the table up, I will be less stringent about this rule.

2) Better use of Pokertracker’s note export feature in making decisions on seat selection, blind stealing, and blind defense

3) Use of the Notes feature to record specific postflop play examples. Up until now I have used it mainly for general play description.

4) Better use of the bet/fold tactic.

5) Isolating a loose limper only when in good position to do so (late position or tight players behind me). Too often I have raised with a marginal-to-decent hand such as KJo to isolate an EP limper, only to be 3-bet or colddonked by another player behind me. This makes postflop play more difficult.

6) Selectively semistealing from MP2 on with hands like A9s or ATo. I have done this too often without considering the types of players yet to act.

7) Tightening up my SB calling standards.

8) Proper attention to opponent’s typical response to a perceived steal raise. I have found several opponents that play back at me preflop, and others that play back on the flop.

9) Proper use of the checkraise to thin the field. Too often I have checkraised on the flop when the pot was large and chasers were correct to call even 2 bets cold.

10) Proper play of whiffed overcards with weak draws.

11) Open limping with weak suited aces only at the proper type of table (loose passive).

Please add to my list. I REALLY want to beat this level.

[soweak.]

don't forget adjusting your play in the blinds or in "steal" situation.

[DrewOnTilt]

BUMParino!

You are making it common practice to get involved often with the weak. This is good.

Let's think about the concept of "Win as much as possible when you're winning, and lose as little as possible when you're losing" If you take this and put it in the "fish hunting" context, it would be great importace to "avoid sharks". Mix it up less than normal with players that are equal to or better then you. The value of the dollar you win from a fish, is equal to the value of the dollar you lose to a shark.

My contribution to your list is:

- Identify the good players and generaly tend to avoid them.




I'm in the process of leak finding myself. (3-6) I like your list. Thanks for sharing it.

[colgin]

Drew,

This looks like a pretty good start. As a start, I might focus one trying to implement whatyouhave already laid out rather than trying to make the list longer.

One coment I have though.

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9) Proper use of the checkraise to thin the field. Too often I have checkraised on the flop when the pot was large and chasers were correct to call even 2 bets cold.

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Obviously this totally depends on the sitution. That said, it is rarely correct for everyone in a multiway pot to have correct odds to call two cold on the flop. Yes, someone may still be calling correctly (although if that is the case then it is still better that they have to call two then that they have to call only one) but others may not. If you have a made, but vulnerable hand, in a multiway pot then I would tend to check-raise if I am in EP and I have GOOD reason to believe someone from LP will bet. If you are in EP it may be hard to protect your hand by waiting until the turn. So you may need to do the best you can to protect yourself on the flop. Whether that is betting out or check-raising depends, but if you think you can get the C/R in then I think you should often go for it. It is a bitmuch to think you can protect yur hand by check-calling the flop and then check-raising the entire field on the turn, although, of course, these suituations may arise from time to time.

Best of luck.

Colgin

[Bodhi]

[img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] I don't play 3/6 yet, but as a 2/4 player I'm very interested in your troubles because I have the bank roll for 3/6 and am biding my time. First of all, 5000 hands is nothing, and you know that. You cannot deduce anything at all about your ability at 3/6 with so few hands. Get to 20k and then we can begin to talk.

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From now on, I will sit down only if I can get a seat 1 or 2 players to the left of the fish, otherwise I will pass on the table until a better seat opens.

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This makes no sense. You want the fish sitting to your left so that they'll cold-call your raises, but rarely reraise. Similarly, they'll keep calling and go to showdown with weak hands. It's the maniacs/LAG's that you don't want on your left.

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Selectively semistealing from MP2 on with hands like A9s or ATo. I have done this too often without considering the types of players yet to act.

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But you are correct to open-raise these hands from middle position. Folding them is weak-tight. What's probably happening is that you're running into stronger than normal hands from your opponents over the last 5k hands and getting 3-bet a lot has tainted your judgement.

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Tightening up my SB calling standards.

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Yeah, I've noticed that the SB is only $1 at 3/6.

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Proper use of the checkraise to thin the field. Too often I have checkraised on the flop when the pot was large and chasers were correct to call even 2 bets cold.

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This is the "I can't protect my hand" fallacy. Just because they can still call doesn't mean you shouldn't still check-raise.

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Open limping with weak suited aces only at the proper type of table (loose passive).

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Were you open-limping the little suted aces at 2/4? [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] I don't get away with this now at 2/4, and gave it up when I moved from 1/2.

Lastly, I'm skeptical about how big these leaks are, except for table/seat selection. The issues you bring up concern your preflop play, which isn't very important if you have half an idea of what you're supposed to be doing. If you're like me, then your real leaks are coming from your postflop play, like not going to showdown often enough.

[mdob]

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From now on, I will sit down only if I can get a seat 1 or 2 players to the left of the fish, otherwise I will pass on the table until a better seat opens.

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This makes no sense. You want the fish sitting to your left so that they'll cold-call your raises, but rarely reraise. Similarly, they'll keep calling and go to showdown with weak hands. It's the maniacs/LAG's that you don't want on your left.

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This is wrong. You definitely want the fish to your right so that you can manipulate them more. Isolate them with a raise pre-flop, let them call one early bet then raise so they'll pay too much for the next card, etc. Sure, you want the LAGs there too, but really, you want everyone there.


[ QUOTE ]
Lastly, I'm skeptical about how big these leaks are, except for table/seat selection. The issues you bring up concern your preflop play, which isn't very important if you have half an idea of what you're supposed to be doing. If you're like me, then your real leaks are coming from your postflop play, like not going to showdown often enough.

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This I totally agree with. These leaks together don't sound all that terrible. Fix them, but find other stuff too. (I know you're trying to do that.)

[Bodhi]

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This is wrong. You definitely want the fish to your right so that you can manipulate them more. Isolate them with a raise pre-flop, let them call one early bet then raise so they'll pay too much for the next card, etc. Sure, you want the LAGs there too, but really, you want everyone there.

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...which is impossible. Read psychology of poker, it has some great advice about seat selection. Whereas it's cool to isolate fish on your right, that usually means you have someone less desireable on your left, i.e. a good player, and they'll be getting the best of you with position. Think about it, you want docile and tranquil players acting behind you.

[mdob]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is wrong. You definitely want the fish to your right so that you can manipulate them more. Isolate them with a raise pre-flop, let them call one early bet then raise so they'll pay too much for the next card, etc. Sure, you want the LAGs there too, but really, you want everyone there.

[/ QUOTE ]

...which is impossible. Read psychology of poker, it has some great advice about seat selection. Whereas it's cool to isolate fish on your right, that usually means you have someone less desireable on your left, i.e. a good player, and they'll be getting the best of you with position. Think about it, you want docile and tranquil players acting behind you.

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Heh, I was being sarcastic with the bolded part.
I'd rather have the "docile and tranquil" players to my right, like I said. With players who cold-call less to your left, you can push them out of pots more-- even if they see what you're doing. Plus, the tighter the players to your left (and the looser the players to your right), the more likely you are to have position on any given hand.

[Bodhi]

You're reasoning is correct that you can take control of more pots with the tight players to your left and the loose players to your right, but over all you will win less $, and that's what counts. The winner is not the one who wins the most pots, but the one who wins the most money.