ATs in SB

AaronS · #1 10-23-2005, 07:41 PM

Party Poker 2.00/4.00 Hold'em (8 handed) link

Played two loops at table. No good reads, villain seems perhaps a bit loose, but hard to say after 20 hands.

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 folds, MP calls, CO raises, 1 folds, Hero calls, BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: (8.00 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP checks, CO bets, Hero raises, BB folds, MP calls, CO calls.

Turn: (7.00 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP raises, CO folds, Hero calls.

River: (11.00 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.00 BB.

Anyone folding preflop?
To the turn raise?

#2 10-23-2005, 07:53 PM

I would 3-bet or fold pre-flop, probebly fold [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. I would check call the turn, players that cold calls a flop rais like that often holds a stronger hand then a pair

newhizzle · #3 10-23-2005, 08:18 PM

i probly play it the same, i think preflop is close tho, its looking like it will be somewhat multiway and most COs have a fairly wide range here, so i dont mind calling

#4 10-23-2005, 08:23 PM

Preflop: I like your call here. It's enough of a hand to play for top pair (unless you have a read on CO as a "will only raise premium hands" type of player). And being suited, you actually want to have additional callers to pad the pot if you pick up a flush draw. Reraising here would be wrong, I think. It's call or fold.

Flop: Perfect!

Turn: MP suddently woke up. Not good at all. Since he's a loose goose, he'll play trash hands like J8s or 86s preflop. Maybe he got lucky on the turn with 77. Or maybe he flopped a set and decided to pop you on the turn. My point is... there are A LOT of hands that have you beaten badly, and unless he's extremely aggressive, it's a no-brainer. Fold.

AaronS · #5 10-23-2005, 08:40 PM

In retrospect I agree. Any raise from a hand I am beating would be unusual to say the least. Maybe K10 or pair plus flush draw or flush plus straight draw if he is overly aggressive. However, without a read I agree this is a clear fold.

W. Deranged · #6 10-23-2005, 08:46 PM

Post-flop play looks great.

Pre-flop is close and really requires a read on the CO. Note that since he's raising behind a limper he's not on a straight steal, and is more likely to have some kind of a hand. Against a legit early or middle position raiser, this hand is almost always a fold out of the small blind since the discount and the lack of position is hardly enough to make up for the likelihood of domination (...you would fold it in late position behind an EP raiser, so you should fold it in the SB...) If you think CO might be raising light then I think you might be able to call profitably. But be careful. I disagree that pre-flop you should raise or fold. With the limper and the MP player left to act, you are not that likely to get this heads-up anyway, and raising may just mean you're putting in extra when dominated and out of position. (It's also nice, as this hand demonstrates, to be able to check-raise the late position better on a flop you like; it's harder to do this if you raise pre-flop.)

#7 10-23-2005, 09:05 PM

I'm folding to the turn raise. There is not much you have beat here. He either made his straight, or flopped a set.

#8 10-23-2005, 09:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Post-flop play looks great.

[/ QUOTE ]
On the turn, Hero is getting 5-to-1 on his call. Not much. AND there's a good chance that he's drawing dead. If you ask me, given the action, it should be fairly obvious that he's up against a better hand. What kind of a player would raise with a lesser hand after Hero has shown so much strength? It would take one hell of a read to make me put in two more big bets in this pot, that's for sure.

W. Deranged · #9 10-23-2005, 09:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm folding to the turn raise. There is not much you have beat here. He either made his straight, or flopped a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

We have no reads, and there is only one reasonably unlikely straight out there. This might be a good spot to find a fold, but always folding TPTK to a turn raise is playing much too tight-weak in my opinion. Notice that there are plenty of two pairs hands here that are at least as likely (in terms of villain's likely pre-flop standards) as the straights are, and we have tons of outs against two pair. Villain might be raising something like 88 because he's now made a draw. He could be waiting until the turn to raise a nice turn card with a hand like JT. He could be totally full of it and think he can take the pot away from you. There are tons of things a not-that-good, not-that-rational small stakes player could have.

With a read, I think folding here is okay.

Without a read, I'm calling this down most all the time in an online game and I'm happy to do so.

#10 10-24-2005, 09:23 AM

With no read at all, I think this is a fold. It's a rare player who would come out raising this turn with just a pair after cold calling the flop. He's got 2 pair or better.