10-20 hand from today - Page 2

muzungu · #11 07-04-2005, 08:26 PM

Huh, I have to disagree here with the crowd who wants to go small here. I dunno about 1250, but I like at least 900 or 1k.

2 reasons to go stronger here:

1. Like Doyle says, fastplay the underfull. If you get fancy and make it 600 and gamblor calls with a J, he has 7 outs, 3 of which are unknown to you. That makes things tougher on the river. If the river comes high, you might be reluctant to get maximum value on the chance that he has filled up- the pot will still be fairly small in comparison to stack sizes.

2. I dunno how the mind games go between you two, but any raise you make here is sending roughly the same message. I think you are only going to get action from a fairly strong hand, regardless of your bet size. A larger bet builds a pot for bigger river action, and it also seems more like a play for the pot on the scare card. I can't imagine making it 600-700 on a bluff here. I dunno how concerned you are about the rest of the field, but I could see them reacting the same way.

-muz

Diplomat · #12 07-04-2005, 08:42 PM

Yes.

-Diplomat

turnipmonster · #13 07-05-2005, 12:23 AM

theres 1300 in the pot on the turn, and it's 250 to us. I can't think of two cards I could have here that I wouldn't raise that bet with. because of that I'm hesitant to give him too good a price, since we'll (or me, anyways) will be bluffing a fair amount of the time. 1k more seems just about right.

Gamblor · #14 07-05-2005, 12:35 AM

For what it's worth, I have a very different recollection of the action.

Super flaky and bad UTG does raise to 50, and we get about 6 ways to the flop. I bet $150 into a $300 pot and got two callers, the first being Diplomat.

IIRC, it was 3 ways to the turn for $750. I bet 1/3 of the pot, and yes, I was looking for action from anyone but Diplomat.

Diplomat · #15 07-06-2005, 09:00 AM

Looks like discussion has died down a bit so I'll post my thoughts and results.

On the turn I thought it was pretty close between Gamblor having a hand like QJ or 99, and distantly possible that the other player had a jack of some kind. I made it 1k on top of his bet because I thought it was fairly proportional to the pot, and would likely get it all in if the middle player had a jack. However my raise might be a bit too large given that it was Gamblor and not some random other player. He can get away from too many hands here with this size of raise, and all the money is going in if the third player has a jack, if I make it 1250 or 650 or whatever.

The third player folded and Gamblor hummed and hawed for a bit before folding. I was fairly sure he had jack-medium kicker, probably not stronger than QJ, which he confirmed later (jack-ten iirc).

I'd still like to hear a couple more thoughts on making it around 500 total (raise 250) on the turn.

-Diplomat

Popinjay · #16 07-06-2005, 09:06 AM

I was going to post again in this thread but I forgot. What I was going to say is that your turn raise is way too transparent. Are you bluffing? Nope. Do you have a huge hand? Yes.

I like a flatcall here. You can let in other players to draw towards a straight or if all of them fold you might be able to raise Gamblor on a river and make him think you missed some sort of draw. You do have an underfull which is vulnerable but seeing that your opponent is competent I think it's okay to slowplay. If you raise a river and he reraises you can let it go.

ginko · #17 07-06-2005, 10:06 AM

Nobody has mentioned this, but what do your opponents think of you? If you are capable of bluffing in their eyes, I'd make a big bet pretending to steal.

Otherwise, what can your opponent beat? Let's assume he has something like J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] , he's thinking what could you have? And depending on your tightness image, he's either putting you on AJ, 44, 66.

If he considers you tight, I bet just enough so he will call or maybe reraise if he's bad.

arod15 · #18 07-06-2005, 10:15 AM

You did good so for. I like the raise it reduces the field. Did he play back? if he did its an easy all in. Hope he doesnt boat up on you casue whoever calles than obv has trips.

arod15 · #19 07-06-2005, 10:18 AM

Why is it so big? Look at the stack sizes and amount in the pot. 1250 is about a pot size bet. Someone with a jack will prob play back at you there. IF no one has the jack you werent going to get action anyway. His object there is to build the pot. I think its a good bet.

Gamblor · #20 07-07-2005, 01:51 PM

FWIW, if Diplomat smooth calls the turn I check-call any bet less than 2/3 the pot and probably check-fold to any big bet or to a river card that completes any reasonable draw.

With an obvious trips but no kicker I don't think I can find a bet on the river.

As I said, we were both playing slightly scared and that goes a long way in narrowing down his hand range [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]