Confused in Scugog

[mike l.]

that check on the turn is incredibly weak and i was thinking that even before i saw the river action. there's no reason to think youre not usually ahead there.

[koa]

I can see the argument for both sides. I would probably go for the cheap showdown just cause if your behind you give yourself a free card and if your ahead your probably not ahead by much and will get called or raised. The flop was capped so its not like you haven't made them pay for their draw if thats all they have, but I don't mind the check on the turn but that might just be me.

[koa]

The check also induces a bluff if they miss on the river cause it looks like your on a draw too. And if they hit their draw they weren't going to fold on the turn so you save a bet or two.

[Gamblor]

[ QUOTE ]
never raise from the button with ATo or KJo or even KQo for that matter. don't raise from the CO with it either. don't be such a hothead. call fool, call. and don't try to scare people out with your raise with one of these hands either. your hand plays better when you call.


[/ QUOTE ]

Does this mean you never raise from late position with these hands as the first to voluntarily enter the pot?

This may go against everything I've ever read or learned about Texas Hold 'em.

[elysium]

hi gamblor

why raise? what is it that you want to accomplish? do you want to win the blinds? yes? are you sure? oh, you're not sure that you want to win the blinds. you have excellent position with what has a reasonable chance of being the best hand. you feel that your hand and position is worth more than just 1 1/2 bet. well, if you raise, you will win the blinds. some people would like that.

so what do you want to do? raise and build a big pot you say? only a hand of equal strength will be in there building a big pot with you. you will also encourage your opponents to play more perfectly due to pot size. is your hand strong enough for that? some people think that ATo is strong enough to build a big pot with.

the question isn't whether you should or should not raise first in with ATo or KQo from LP, the question is 'what is your action trying to accomplish?'. once you answer that question with some measure of definity, if you break down the gameplan requiring a raise reach the goal that you set out to achieve, you will find it wrought with nuisancesome quirks and pesky nuances that keep cropping up seemingly out of nowhere. the perspicacious player, however, will quickly realize his error which he discovers as he looks back at his pre-flop raise, and says rather blandly, 'should have called.'. and you know something gamblor, he's right.

before making a hold em decision, ask 'what am i trying to accomplish?'. it may go against the grain a bit gamblor, but if you know what you're trying to do, you will embark upon a more correct course of action as you set out to do it. never ask, 'am i sure that this is what i want to do?', after it's too late. by that time the answer will be self evident.

[felson]

[ QUOTE ]
On the river, your value bet is very thin. After all, it looks like they both had draws and missed. You will win often when you bet and they both fold, but how often will you win when you actually get called? About the only hand they can hold that you beat and they will call with is a suited Qh and Axh. Yeah, they might have those hands, but AJ is also in the picture.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jack kicker doesn't play once the board pairs. So the river bet chops against Ax.

[PennDisc]

You might win 2.5 blinds here without a fight. I'd say that is a great result. If you limp AT here against the BB, the CO poster, and the SB who will complete, you will certainly have to improve your hand to win. If people call the raise, you're getting the money in preflop with what is likely the best hand, not a bad result either. And they certainly don't necessarily have to have similar strength hands to call the raise either. Plus, if they do call the raise, you have position and the initiative. What good is your position going to do if you limp, rags flop, and the blinds come out firing? I don't agree with any of your reasons for limping.

[elysium]

[ QUOTE ]
What good is your position going to do if you limp, rags flop, and the blinds come out firing?

[/ QUOTE ]

forget about position, what good is the ATo going to do when rags flop and the little guys come out firing? by the way, that's another reason for limping.

[haakee]

Oops, I meant to say "Diplomat" not "DcifrThs"

[joes28]

I still disagree. I would be happy with stealing the blinds alone with this hand, the CO blind is just icing on the cake. One of the major problems I have with limping here is that by limping you have no idea what your opponent has, but by them calling/raising your raise at least you know that they have some sort of hand, so when the flop comes A 2 6, or something like that, you can play aggressively without too much concern over something like 26o.

not to mention, you give yourself a better chance for a free card.