Not allowed to read the rules?

[smarterthanyoda]

Recently I was playing 4/8 at a local casino when a player called the floor. He complained that another player had thrown his cards into the muck rather than show them. The floor explained that any player could ask to see a hand that had been called in a showdown.

Although I don't really agree with this rule, what really caught my attention is what happened next. The player that had mucked his hand said he wanted to see the written rules. The floor told him that wasn't allowed.

I've seen advice before that you should ask for the rulebook and review it when you go to a new cardroom. I've also seen plenty of times that different floors' "interpretions" of the rules are very different. It seems to me that having a rulebook that cannot be viewed and is constantly interpreted differently is no better that not having a rulebook.

How usual is it for a cardroom to not allow players to read the house rules?

[Randy_Refeld]

The rules should be treated as an internal document. The "rules" should be posted on the wall. Unless someone wants to see how much of an angle they can shott there is no reason to read the detailed rules. If you wait until the players in front of you have acted and protect your hand/action you will have no problems. I have never seen anything good come from allowing a player who might not even know what the terms mean study a rule book to look for things to argue about.

[smarterthanyoda]

Thanks for the quick answer.

I guess I was wrong. What you say makes sense.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
What you say makes sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't make a bit of sense.

We are going to play a game, but the rules are secret??? Because I'm too freakin' stupid to understand them??? And I suppose if you break a rule you get put on double-secret probation? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Does it say in the rules that I can't see the rules?? I want to see that in the rules. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

My local cardroom is Canterbury Park. I believe the rules are available in the cardroom, although I have never asked. The rules are published on their web site. They also have a detailed glossary in case of any confusion as to the meaning of basic English. Failure to provide the rules is unfair and insulting to players. It's also a cop-out and cover-up for lazy, incompetent, insecure floormen. If a floorman knows his job, he should have no problem discussing the rules with a player who has read the rules.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What you say makes sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't make a bit of sense.

We are going to play a game, but the rules are secret??? Because I'm too freakin' stupid to understand them??? And I suppose if you break a rule you get put on double-secret probation? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Does it say in the rules that I can't see the rules?? I want to see that in the rules. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

My local cardroom is Canterbury Park. I believe the rules are available in the cardroom, although I have never asked. The rules are published on their web site. They also have a detailed glossary in case of any confusion as to the meaning of basic English. Failure to provide the rules is unfair and insulting to players. It's also a cop-out and cover-up for lazy, incompetent, insecure floormen. If a floorman knows his job, he should have no problem discussing the rules with a player who has read the rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

They don't have a list of rules posted on the wall?

b

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What you say makes sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't make a bit of sense.

We are going to play a game, but the rules are secret??? Because I'm too freakin' stupid to understand them??? And I suppose if you break a rule you get put on double-secret probation? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Does it say in the rules that I can't see the rules?? I want to see that in the rules. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

My local cardroom is Canterbury Park. I believe the rules are available in the cardroom, although I have never asked. The rules are published on their web site. They also have a detailed glossary in case of any confusion as to the meaning of basic English. Failure to provide the rules is unfair and insulting to players. It's also a cop-out and cover-up for lazy, incompetent, insecure floormen. If a floorman knows his job, he should have no problem discussing the rules with a player who has read the rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

They don't have a list of rules posted on the wall?

b

[/ QUOTE ]

They do in at least one place, I think its up on the front wall, behind the board and by the cage. I think there's another one back by the Casino Games room by the tables they normally spread the 30/60 at.

[MicroBob]

SOME rules posted on the wall is not the same as a more detailed copy of the rules that is available to everyone.

[MicroBob]

How am I supposed to know the rules if I can't see them.

There are probably several rules that I would have been likely to have broken when I was a newbie if it hadn't been up to me to just sit there and guess.

I see people breaking the string-bet rule all the freaking time just because they don't know what it is.
For quite awhile I would never never have even known what 'protect your cards' meant. I only started playing a couple years ago....and when I first started I would have just assumed that it ONLY meant that I should make sure that nobody is trying to peak over my shoulder and look at them.


Protect my action: Would have had zero idea what that meant.

Hell, I didn't even know you had to go to the desk to ask what games were open. I just assumed you could walk right in and sit down at any table (I did this once...seriously).

I have to wait for the dealer to push me the pot?
Am I allowed to get up to leave to go to the bathroom or will I lose my seat?
I'm not allowed to take my own chips off the table? What's up with that?

Seriously...there are a LOT of new players out there who don't even know the basics.

Why would we want to keep it all a mystery?

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would we want to keep it all a mystery?

[/ QUOTE ]

"A fouled hand may be declared dead"
"Cards that touch the muck are fouled"

Many people that are unfamiliar with poker jump to the conclusion "cards that touch the muck are dead." Does reading the above two rules make it more or less likely that someone will jump to the false conclusion that touching the muck kills a hand?

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
How am I supposed to know the rules if I can't see them.

There are probably several rules that I would have been likely to have broken when I was a newbie if it hadn't been up to me to just sit there and guess.

I see people breaking the string-bet rule all the freaking time just because they don't know what it is.
For quite awhile I would never never have even known what 'protect your cards' meant. I only started playing a couple years ago....and when I first started I would have just assumed that it ONLY meant that I should make sure that nobody is trying to peak over my shoulder and look at them.


Protect my action: Would have had zero idea what that meant.

Hell, I didn't even know you had to go to the desk to ask what games were open. I just assumed you could walk right in and sit down at any table (I did this once...seriously).

I have to wait for the dealer to push me the pot?
Am I allowed to get up to leave to go to the bathroom or will I lose my seat?
I'm not allowed to take my own chips off the table? What's up with that?

Seriously...there are a LOT of new players out there who don't even know the basics.

Why would we want to keep it all a mystery?

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't need a masters degree. All this stuff you learn within the first 10 minutes of play. If you don't know. Simply ask. If it was posted, no one would read it anyways. I don't see a big line looking at the rules as they post it on the walls now, they sure as hell aren't going to look at 4 pages worth. Actually, it's rare to see anyone whether new or not looking at the rules.

b